Deity Existence

[Manzcar]

But don't you agree that morals, laws, and society behaviors all stem from religious beliefs.

Hrae's moral beliefs look a lot like what is in the Bible. Treat others like how you would like to be treated.

If we really want to shed off religion in all its forms should we not also shed off the moral beliefs that stem from them?

[Hraesvelg]

Feel free to jump in, Ivra.

Manz, your point might hold water if other groups of people that had never heard of Judaism/Christianity didn't also have similar ideas like "the Golden Rule". They never got your memo and they decided that being decent to each other was probably the way to go.

[Jikanu]

But their beliefs often also stemmed off of some deity. So your counter point holds no water.

[Hraesvelg]

The adherents also were bipedal. Therefore, they are the same.

[Manzcar]

Feel free to jump in, Ivra.

Manz, your point might hold water if other groups of people that had never heard of Judaism/Christianity didn't also have similar ideas like "the Golden Rule". They never got your memo and they decided that being decent to each other was probably the way to go.

Since when were Judaism/Christianity the only religions.

name a society or known time that didn't have some sort of religion / god.

Even the native Americans (considered savages by the sophisticated Europeans) had religion.

[Ivramire]

If it is as you're implying, bad things also happen in the name of deities. Things that are perfectly acceptable and moral to that religion's view-point but unacceptable to Christianity's/Judaisms. But it's all okay because our deities endowed us with a sense of what's good and right.


eg- It behooved the ancient Aztecs to sacrifice human-beings in the name of their gods. According to what you're saying, their sense of morals and actions were perfectly acceptable since we derive our sense of morality from our chosen deities.


In social-systems where there is less separation between Church and State, Religion was used as a regulator for social-behavior, not necessarily the originator of said ''morals.''


I know it's somewhat of a tangent but I can't say it in a way more easily understandable -__-

[Jikanu]

Since when were Judaism/Christianity the only religions.

name a society or known time that didn't have some sort of religion / god.

Even the native Americans (considered savages by the sophisticated Europeans) had religion.

Ok, im sorry Manz, but that last line pisses me off. The natives were Just as civilized as the Europeans. Perhaps not technologically, but for the most part they followed a MUCH more moral path than europeans did. i dont see why you had to throw in that savages line. The Europeans used God's name in vain to rape, pillage, and steal from the natives.

It's not God that's bad- it's humans that use his name to cause death that are bad.

[Manzcar]

Ok, im sorry Manz, but that last line pisses me off. The natives were Just as civilized as the Europeans. Perhaps not technologically, but for the most part they followed a MUCH more moral path than europeans did. i dont see why you had to throw in that savages line.

My point wasn't that they were savages. You missed it entirely. My point was that some other society (Europeans) decided that the Native Americans were savages and so therefor they were.

It shows that morals are what society says they are.

Just like Lav said: there have been societies throughout the centuries who had human sacrifices because they thought it was right.

[Hraesvelg]

YouTube - Morality without God? - Part 1

YouTube - Morality without God? - Part 2

These might help explain the position a bit better than I am.

[Manzcar]

at work cant see videos.

But aren't morals learned not inherent?

We aren't born with a moral compass but are taught what is right and wrong by those around us. Your own moral compass is influenced by your parents, grandparents, friends, and the society around you.

Thus why there is still hatred, bigotry, and intolerance.

Morality is not a genetic trait that can be changed, but is a societal constraint.

thus why in some parts in the world and in some times in history things like slavery, murder, human sacrifice, rape, and many other activities now considered morally wrong were common and accepted.