Deity Existence

**Manzcar** · 04-16-2009, 04:03 PM

So if you are not wanting Him to prove He is all Powerful you are wanting Him to prove He is not all powerful.

Which is again proving a negative.

**Vasu** · 04-16-2009, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by Jikanu

but what if what you're asking defies the very nature of the divine being? God is able to lift everything, so your question is paradoxical, since even an infinitely heavy stone is liftable by God.

So, God cannot make stone too heavy for him correct? And it only goes against the nature of omnipotent beings, and here I am proving that absolute omnipotence is impossible.

Originally Posted by Manzcar

So if you are not wanting Him to prove He is all Powerful you are wanting Him to prove He is not all powerful.

Which is again proving a negative.

I do not want him to prove anything. I am trying to show that a being cannot be all powerful.

**Manzcar** · 04-16-2009, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Vasu

So, God cannot make stone too heavy for him correct? And it only goes against the nature of omnipotent beings, and here I am proving that absolute omnipotence is impossible.

I do not want him to prove anything. I am trying to show that a being cannot be all powerful.

So what you are saying is that this Question is not about God proving anything to you, but is about you proving to yourself that there is no God. You use the worldâ€™s limited knowledge and understanding of not only the physical and natural but also the spiritual and with this limited knowledge and understanding have concluded that no entity can be all powerful because they can not make a stone heavy enough that they are unable to lift it.

Does that about sum it up?

**Vasu** · 04-16-2009, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by Manzcar

So what you are saying is that this Question is not about God proving anything to you, but is about you proving to yourself that there is no God. You use the world’s limited knowledge and understanding of not only the physical and natural but also the spiritual and with this limited knowledge and understanding have concluded that no entity can be all powerful because they can not make a stone heavy enough that they are unable to lift it.

Does that about sum it up?

Yes, in effect though it does not have to be a stone. The essence of the point is that an omnipotent being should also have the power to limit itself, thereby making it non-omnipotent.

EDIT: Also, I do not see what physical, natural and "spiritual" knowledge I have applied here, I have applied simple logic.

Jikanu · 04-16-2009, 04:50 PM

i know im gonna take alot of heat for this, but it's true....

Logic doesnt solve everything.

**Vasu** · 04-16-2009, 04:53 PM

Such as?

And don't beat around the bush, reply directly to my point. For the sake of argument, let's assume that you're right, and logic doesn't solve everything. Exactly what is wrong with my statement?

Jikanu · 04-16-2009, 05:06 PM

im just saying there ARE things in the world pure logic cant solve. so many things are still mysteries to us and are unexplainable in terms of logic, at this point, at least. not just religion, that is, but in other places too.

And if the omnipotent being has the power to limit himself, does he not also the power to take off those limits also, therefore continuing to make him or her omnipotent?