Deity Existence

Jikanu · 04-12-2009, 04:49 PM

he gives us all a chance with free will, hrae. Angels included. and hell wasnt just lying around. he created it for that purpose

**Vasu** · 04-12-2009, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by Jikanu

he gives us all a chance with free will, hrae. Angels included. and hell wasnt just lying around. he created it for that purpose

So he creates us in a way that we all automatically gravitate towards things that he does not want us to do, and then lets us burn forever for doing it. It sounds like putting poisoned cheese right in front of a mouse. Hey, the mouse has a choice. It ain't my fault.

Jikanu · 04-12-2009, 04:54 PM

i never said that o-o

He makes us innocent. it's society that corrupts us. and the things that are immoral usually cause harm to society; being promiscuous leads to std's. murder is obvious. etc.

he has a plan, it's up to us to follow it

**Hraesvelg** · 04-12-2009, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by Jikanu

He makes us innocent.

Does he? As a Catholic, I would have thought you would be familiar with the concept of Original Sin.

Jikanu · 04-12-2009, 04:59 PM

Of course, we have original sin, but we also are born as innocent beings; Ever hear of when Jesus said "come to me as children do"?

**Vasu** · 04-12-2009, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Jikanu

i never said that o-o

He makes us innocent. it's society that corrupts us. and the things that are immoral usually cause harm to society; being promiscuous leads to std's. murder is obvious. etc.

he has a plan, it's up to us to follow it

If he makes us innnocent, then why aren't we all born in the garden of Eden with fig leaves covering our privates?

EDIT: Sorry I was late.

EDIT 2: So we're innocent, but we're sinful?

Jikanu · 04-12-2009, 05:08 PM

no. we're innocent at heart, but choices bring you to sinhood; it's instant pleasure vs. longlasting happiness; a party mentality (i.e. do whatever you want and die out quickly) vs. a more long lasting one

**Vasu** · 04-12-2009, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Jikanu

no. we're innocent at heart, but choices bring you to sinhood; it's instant pleasure vs. longlasting happiness; a party mentality (i.e. do whatever you want and die out quickly) vs. a more long lasting one

So we have no original sin?

Jikanu · 04-12-2009, 05:12 PM

i was addressing the sin we have from choice.

Original sin is inherent; it's something we're born with, not a choice; it's a sin that can be easily purged.

From then on out, however, children are innocent. they're open to God and have no evil in their hearts.

EDIT: are you well versed with the Garden of Eden? People were completely innocent and riteous until corrupted by satan, causing a chain reaction in which society became corrupt. it allowed sin to enter the world. Therefore, the assumption that we are born without any intent of harming anyone isnt theologically implausible.

**Manzcar** · 04-13-2009, 01:54 PM

I've seen in this thread that many people will post their beliefs in that there is a God. And others will refute the fact that there is a God by tearing down what the others have stated for their reasoning that there is a God.

I propose to then turn the tables. It is obvious that there are those that have a firm belief that there is no God. So I am open to here how you can prove that there is not a God.

Please give me your proofs that there is no God and maybe you will be able to convince me that there is not a God.