Whats Ruining Society? [Wall of Text]

[Hessah]

But where does he get the money to eat for those 10 days? A loan? Why is he given a loan when he doesn't have any collateral to show for it?

He could very well be given a credit card, as his payslip will show that his income is greater than his "usual" expense, it's not entirely up to the people who lends him money that he will use it in appropriate discretion. And believe it or not, banks LIKE it that you get into debt becoz that means forever interest for them...

Or a nice friend will lend him some money so he can eat for the rest of the month.... on a simpler scale.

Since when does "need" dictate who gets what? It's earning power that earns you money. I "need" food to live. So if I sit there and "need" it, I won't get it. I need to go "earn" it.

OK i've tried retyping this reply 3 times and i don't think i exactly know what you mean.

There are organisations out there that realise not everyone could EARN their own food, hence they reach into their bank account and lay out for some money/materials for those who cannot afford certain things. Whether it's things that keeps them alive (food) or things that enhance their lives (education).

So, I have my own job, I can afford my own NEEDS, should I still go and ask these generous people for THEIR money too? If I do, for every bit that I take, someone else who doesn't have a job / money will not get the support.

We both NEED the offer, but they need it more than I do... as I have other avenues to support my own need.

Not sure if that answers you, but that's wat my post meant.

[Vasu]

He could very well be given a credit card, as his payslip will show that his income is greater than his "usual" expense, it's not entirely up to the people who lends him money that he will use it in appropriate discretion. And believe it or not, banks LIKE it that you get into debt becoz that means forever interest for them...

Or a nice friend will lend him some money so he can eat for the rest of the month.... on a simpler scale.

Forever interest...from where? From where when he's already in debt?

Then it's the friend's fault for, in a way, supporting his irresponsible spending.

OK i've tried retyping this reply 3 times and i don't think i exactly know what you mean.

There are organisations out there that realise not everyone could EARN their own food, hence they reach into their bank account and lay out for some money/materials for those who cannot afford certain things. Whether it's things that keeps them alive (food) or things that enhance their lives (education).

So, I have my own job, I can afford my own NEEDS, should I still go and ask these generous people for THEIR money too? If I do, for every bit that I take, someone else who doesn't have a job / money will not get the support.

We both NEED the offer, but they need it more than I do... as I have other avenues to support my own need.

Not sure if that answers you, but that's wat my post meant.

Shouldn't those organisations be checking into whether you really need it? Isn't that irresponsible of them?

[Hessah]

In the ideal perfect world, yes. They should be checking every bit they could to ensure that only people that deserves gets it. But, reality is people will lie and dodge criterias to receive more than what they need. And often there's a limit to how far an organisation could go into checking you.

For example, people get study allowance for students that doesn't have an income. But I go and tutor my cousins and all my relative's kids, and i get cash. I probably don't "need" the government hand outs, but I still get it coz I fit their criteria and they can't check on me coz i get cash... kinda thing..



OK, that man with the pants. He earns $300. The bank can very well give him a credit card with $200 limit on it. He gets his pay check, spent $150 on food, and pays for the pants with his $200 limit. In the next month, he gets another $300, pays $150 for food, and he still owes the bank $200. He pays $150 off (because that's all he could afford) and in roll the interest for the $50 he still owes.

That is, provided that he doesn't spend any MORE luxuries. If he does, he rolls more interest through.

There's his debt and interest. Of coz, if he's really a plan ahead guy, he can pay it off in 3 months. BUT if things gets into a bigger scale like a mortgage or a car loan, the lump sum can get bigger and bigger easily.




And just for a fun fact, when I first applied for a credit card, the monthly limit they gave me was 4 times the amount I earn. I didn't even ask for that limit, they just said "here you go". They really don't think about how I was going to repay it coz that's how banks earn money. From interest.

[Vasu]

Okay. I'm getting a little tired of the ideal world brush-offs. What is your suggestion then? That everybody be responsible? That nobody be materialistic? Even that happens only in an "ideal" world. I still maintain that the fact that banks give out loans so irresponsibly is NOT the man's fault. He's entitled to spend his money in any way he sees fit.

[Hessah]

Everyone should be "responsible". People can be materialistic, within their own limits.

The ideal world is not real. The "bush offs" are just another way of saying "yes that is how it SHOULD work but that's not REALLY how it works."

Anyone is entitle to spend his money where he sees fit, I agree with you on that. But with the example I gave, the guy is spending MORE than he has earnt...

People need to be responsible for their own spending, the fact that someone is lending you more money than you can earn does not mean you can go and spend it all. (And there are many real people out there that doesn't understand that concept.)

And, blaming a bank isn't really gonna give that guy free food for the rest of the month, is it?

[Ivramire]

Okay. I'm getting a little tired of the ideal world brush-offs. What is your suggestion then? That everybody be responsible? That nobody be materialistic? Even that happens only in an "ideal" world. I still maintain that the fact that banks give out loans so irresponsibly is NOT the man's fault. He's entitled to spend his money in any way he sees fit.

I don't think that anyone here is saying that you don't have the right to spend the money you earned in whatever way you want. The problem lies in spending money that you don't have for things you don't really need, such as for the aforementioned IPhone. People borrow more than they could realistically afford to pay back and the banks can write it off as profit in the books. This is what happens when the economy is coasting along.


We then hit a bumpy spot. Oil prices flucuate, housing prices collapse, banks start going under, car companys go hat in hand, noone can afford to pay back the sums they've borrowed. etc. ad nauseum.


There are things the way they should be, and there are things the ways they are. (clunky sentence) Banks should only be lending to those who can afford it, people should only borrow what they can afford to pay, we all should take into account real needs first, but that is not they way things are. In the end, we can only look back and say that this is the way things should have been, but much too late and after the fact.

^Typed out before Hessah's reply

[Yosei]

Yeah you basically worded everything in my head lol. I suck at getting things into words D:

[Jikanu]

personally, i think it's people ruining society, though that's a bit of an oxy-moron... people these days have lost all tennants of respect for their fellow human beings. people look at others as faceless pawns in their own gain. there's exceptions, like most people here, but overall, i think it's greed and human nature ruining society right now. it's like that '70s movie, "Network"... at the end it proves that alot of the time people are looked at as dollar signs... i wont spoil it for people who havent seen it yet though.