Spirit Vs. Strength...

[Triumph]

The widely accepted build for archers is 25spr, the rest str... but i've been wondering, why not reverse that? or maybe even go pure spirit with str equips? here's my theory:

if you have a high crit rate, with a bit of str backing you up, isn't it better than a low crit rate with a bit more damage per shot? i mean, if you get crits say... every 2 hits, for 400 damage, isn't it better than a crit every 4-5 hits for 800 damage? plus, you could factor in the extra magic defense and mp you'd get from spirit, plus the fact that you can just get str from equips while spr from equips doesnt add crit... spirit starts looking a bit more prosperous. to me, at least. =/

I seek to challenge that statement, actually.

Numerous tests have indicated that in most circumstances, a pure build will defeat a hybrid build. It seems to be that KFiesta/JPFiesta both prefer pure STR and INT builds. This argument I won't touch on; it has been argued extensively, and it is your choice exclusively. I know for a fact CB testers preferred a pure build; all the Legends of Isya were pure builds as well. I'm sure that things have changed in the past year since my departure.

As you may know, the critical rate is a statistic added onto each shot, meaning that if you have a 25% critical rate, it is a 25% chance of landing a critical. This does not mean that you will get a critical hit once every four hits; this just means that a probability of 0.25 exists of hitting a critical hit.

Whereas the damage output does not deviate much, you will notice a damage over time difference. However, it is really insignificant, as one extra shot from the hybrid build will equal the pure build in terms of damage.

Secondly, as Hessah has stated, the critical bonus levels off. It reduces to 0.1% after 25, and after 62, I believe it levels off to 0.05%.

Thirdly, freestat points are points added onto your damage output. For example, assume your damage output is X, calculated by your weapon, enhancement, armor attributes, etc. You then add Y, which is your freestat points in terms of damage. 25 damage may not seem like very much, and it may seem contradictory to common sense, but it does more damage.

Thus, as follows:

Pure build: X+Y = damage
Hybrid build: X+(Y-25) = damage

[Jikanu]

I seek to challenge that statement, actually.

Numerous tests have indicated that in most circumstances, a pure build will defeat a hybrid build. It seems to be that KFiesta/JPFiesta both prefer pure STR and INT builds. This argument I won't touch on; it has been argued extensively, and it is your choice exclusively. I know for a fact CB testers preferred a pure build; all the Legends of Isya were pure builds as well. I'm sure that things have changed in the past year since my departure.

As you may know, the critical rate is a statistic added onto each shot, meaning that if you have a 25% critical rate, it is a 25% chance of landing a critical. This does not mean that you will get a critical hit once every four hits; this just means that a probability of 0.25 exists of hitting a critical hit.

Whereas the damage output does not deviate much, you will notice a damage over time difference. However, it is really insignificant, as one extra shot from the hybrid build will equal the pure build in terms of damage.

Secondly, as Hessah has stated, the critical bonus levels off. It reduces to 0.1% after 25, and after 62, I believe it levels off to 0.05%.

Thirdly, freestat points are points added onto your damage output. For example, assume your damage output is X, calculated by your weapon, enhancement, armor attributes, etc. You then add Y, which is your freestat points in terms of damage. 25 damage may not seem like very much, and it may seem contradictory to common sense, but it does more damage.

Thus, as follows:

Pure build: X+Y = damage
Hybrid build: X+(Y-25) = damage

but the question is, what's more valuable: damage per regular hit, or more crits?

[Hessah]

Thus, as follows:

Pure build: X+Y = damage
Hybrid build: X+(Y-25) = damage

That leaves out the crit factor in that equation..

Hybrid build: [X+(Y-25)] + (Z+0.05) x [X+(Y-25)] = damage

Where Z is the percentage of your other crit rates.

Or something similar like that...

[Ralath]

Both of them will crit rates.

I've heard crits are more important in PVP.

[Triumph]

Alright, I'll clarify.

As for the spreadsheets, my personal spreadsheets are destroyed. My former laptop is gone, destroyed by a female entity known as my sister. However, if it's possible, I'll see if Icy will divulge his. His were better than mine, anyways.

Secondly, I'll recite what I can remember from testing. Since I really have nothing better to do, yes, I spend time doing math for a game. For want of information rather than walls of text, I'll say this:

Without any critical equipment, the damage margin is smaller between builds. For instance (and this is pure theoretical data), assume that a level 79 mage does 325 damage average on a level 79 fighter in PvP. The theoretical data spread will be this, criticals bolded.

325, 314, 329, 714, 336, 322, 312, 326, 335, 320, 330, 341, 335, 324, 334, 337, 342, 310, 309, 308.

= 6903.

Your critical ratio boost is assumed to be the base critical of a standard wand at 3%. Consequently, your chances are less than ideal for criticals. Now assume that you have a hybrid build, with 69 INT/25 SPR. Your damage will be decreased by roughly 30 or so.

Hypothetically, you have a critical percent boost of 8%, which is almost three times the boost from a pure INT build.

295, 284, 299, 560, 306, 292, 564, 558, 296, 300, 311, 305, 294, 304, 307, 312, 280, 279, 278.

= 6424

Regardless of critical, the hybrid build does lower damage, despite a higher percent for criticals. This margin increases with the addition of say, a 15% critical boost set, with the further addition of earrings, license, and glasses, at a further addition of 9%, culminating to the addition of 24% to both builds.

Pure build - Critical rate: 27%: 650, 628, 329, 714, 336, 322, 312, 326, 335, 320, 330, 341, 335, 324, 334, 337, 342, 310, 618, 308.

= 7851

Hybrid build - Critical rate: 32%: 590, 284, 299, 560, 306, 292, 564, 558, 296, 300, 622, 305, 294, 304, 307, 312, 560, 279, 278.

= 7310.

Each time, it is proven that a pure build will do more damage. However, these calculations should not be assumed to be fully accurate. The critical rate is based on a static rate: sometimes, half the hits may be criticals; others, none. Consequently, however, in theory, pure build defeats hybrid builds.

If you still don't trust it, go compare a level 79 pure build and a level 79 hybrid build. Collect data for both, using the same weapon and no other equipment. Then add as much critical equipment as possible. I've conducted studies for this as well: pure build defeats a hybrid build.

/end wall of text.

/run tl; dr.exe

.

[Hessah]

Yeah

/run tl; dr.exe


I'm not challenging whether STR / SPR which does more dmg.. just simple your extremely simplified equation looks misleading XD



Btw that goes for mage, and I agree that full INT > INT/SPR built... coz of our natural crit rate and stuff..

But.. what goes for one class cannot be computed for other classes right?? Esp archers... and their AOE... I think the Crits (i.e. SPR) are fairly crucial for dmg...

[Jikanu]

what about pure spirit then? what's the result for that?

[Triumph]

what about pure spirit then? what's the result for that?

Use pure SPR only if you do 1200+ damage on mobs.

[Jikanu]

Use pure SPR only if you do 1200+ damage on mobs.

...but wouldnt that require added str if you dont naturally do 1200 damage? O_O

[xDario]

Alright, I'll clarify.

As for the spreadsheets, my personal spreadsheets are destroyed. My former laptop is gone, destroyed by a female entity known as my sister. However, if it's possible, I'll see if Icy will divulge his. His were better than mine, anyways.

Secondly, I'll recite what I can remember from testing. Since I really have nothing better to do, yes, I spend time doing math for a game. For want of information rather than walls of text, I'll say this:

Without any critical equipment, the damage margin is smaller between builds. For instance (and this is pure theoretical data), assume that a level 79 mage does 325 damage average on a level 79 fighter in PvP. The theoretical data spread will be this, criticals bolded.

325, 314, 329, 714, 336, 322, 312, 326, 335, 320, 330, 341, 335, 324, 334, 337, 342, 310, 309, 308.

= 6903.

Your critical ratio boost is assumed to be the base critical of a standard wand at 3%. Consequently, your chances are less than ideal for criticals. Now assume that you have a hybrid build, with 69 INT/25 SPR. Your damage will be decreased by roughly 30 or so.

Hypothetically, you have a critical percent boost of 8%, which is almost three times the boost from a pure INT build.

295, 284, 299, 560, 306, 292, 564, 558, 296, 300, 311, 305, 294, 304, 307, 312, 280, 279, 278.

= 6424

Regardless of critical, the hybrid build does lower damage, despite a higher percent for criticals. This margin increases with the addition of say, a 15% critical boost set, with the further addition of earrings, license, and glasses, at a further addition of 9%, culminating to the addition of 24% to both builds.

Pure build - Critical rate: 27%: 650, 628, 329, 714, 336, 322, 312, 326, 335, 320, 330, 341, 335, 324, 334, 337, 342, 310, 618, 308.

= 7851

Hybrid build - Critical rate: 32%: 590, 284, 299, 560, 306, 292, 564, 558, 296, 300, 622, 305, 294, 304, 307, 312, 560, 279, 278.

= 7310.

Each time, it is proven that a pure build will do more damage. However, these calculations should not be assumed to be fully accurate. The critical rate is based on a static rate: sometimes, half the hits may be criticals; others, none. Consequently, however, in theory, pure build defeats hybrid builds.

If you still don't trust it, go compare a level 79 pure build and a level 79 hybrid build. Collect data for both, using the same weapon and no other equipment. Then add as much critical equipment as possible. I've conducted studies for this as well: pure build defeats a hybrid build.

/end wall of text.

/run tl; dr.exe

i agree that the DMG will be higher with a full DMG build ;
the +25SPR doesnt only add 5% crit, but also the extra SP and m.def.
You could argue that the SP isnt too useful for mages, but its more use than you think. Then, also, m.def helps you in pvp.
So i guess theres good and bad to both sides, and you should make your choise around that.

Also, later in the game,the int wont be too much of a % difference, so i guess the dmg output will be the same/more.