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Old 10-15-2008, 01:22 PM   #1
HeroDie
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Originally Posted by Andromeda View Post
I had a Lv 79 cleric and I'll say from experience this...

Sorry if this comes out aggressive or anything but this is one of the most stupidest things I've heard. Clerics have attack skills they have weapons to attack with so surely they can solo. An END, END/SPR build cleric is terrible for soloing though.

Clerics can solo enemies better than any other class in the game (Boss enemies in particular)

Get yourself a Lv 70 Blue Hammer+9 or Bellow Knight Hammer+9 with a STR build surely you will be doing some decent damage to enemies. Its not like you are forced to party you know. Some people are more efficent solo and can get things done quicker in solo play. Personally myself I couldn't because I lacked a +9 hammer and my cleric was pure END and so was my equipment so I relied on parties for my work.

I know STR build clerics would be godly in abyss solo since the enemies deal out low damage and have low HP which a STR build would really benefit from.

Also depending on how rich you are a cleric may simply be better anyway since you wont need to waste money on restoning as fast as any other class and you can save a heck of alot of pots.
Your not seeing where i'm coming from though and stupid i really dont think so ..but i can agree .. your just not looking at the simple fact as clerics have extremely poor damage unless you str build ...which wouldn't be the smartiest idea and they dont have as many. damaging attacks I mean they have bash but without empowerment to that or a str based char your still not going to do much .all your argueing is they can heal forever your not looking at how long it would take to kill one thing as oppose to an archer or a fighter ...im not getting on mages cause they are like paper ...which is where a cleric comes in ..im not saying dont solo a cleric i'm doing that right now..low lvl just stated but, clerics are more of party leaders then soloers is all
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Old 10-15-2008, 02:37 PM   #2
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"Your not seeing where i'm coming from though and stupid i really dont think so ..but i can agree .. your just not looking at the simple fact as clerics have extremely poor damage unless you str build ...which wouldn't be the smartiest idea and they dont have as many. damaging attacks I mean they have bash but without empowerment to that or a str based char your still not going to do much .all your argueing is they can heal forever your not looking at how long it would take to kill one thing as oppose to an archer or a fighter ...im not getting on mages cause they are like paper ...which is where a cleric comes in ..im not saying dont solo a cleric i'm doing that right now..low lvl just stated but, clerics are more of party leaders then soloers is all"


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Old 10-15-2008, 03:01 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by HeroDie View Post
Your not seeing where i'm coming from though and stupid i really dont think so ..but i can agree .. your just not looking at the simple fact as clerics have extremely poor damage unless you str build ...which wouldn't be the smartiest idea and they dont have as many. damaging attacks I mean they have bash but without empowerment to that or a str based char your still not going to do much .all your argueing is they can heal forever your not looking at how long it would take to kill one thing as oppose to an archer or a fighter ...im not getting on mages cause they are like paper ...which is where a cleric comes in ..im not saying dont solo a cleric i'm doing that right now..low lvl just stated but, clerics are more of party leaders then soloers is all
Tell that to all the clerics (STR build in particular) who have soloed Slime, Mara, Robo, Spider, Phino KQ.

Clerics burn through SP stones the slowest of the 4 classes which means they wouldn't have to head back to town quickly like every other class after their SP stones are burnt out (this can be a big problem depending on your grinding/quest party location unless you have a mount that can move extremely quickly). I was taking note of this in particular in a Dungeon of Abyss party with 3 Mages and 1 fighter. I could last at least 4 times longer than the mages in DoA before I had to restone but I actually had to restone before then since inventory was always getting full but if I had Iron Case this would only prove me right further.

Clerics were always meant to have the lowest ATP because they are the only class with healing techniques (Excluding Fighters Vampire Strike)

You are seriously underestimating the solo capabilities of a STR build cleric any STR build cleric out there will tell you this.

Every class has a weakness in solo which is why parties are always the fastest way to level for any class to remove these weaknesses and kill enemies much much faster than what you could do solo.

You also say it like cleric is the only class that is hindered in solo play but


Fighters - have low SP stones so they have to frequently restone when they are burning their skills but if they are partied with DD for example Mage they dont have to worry too much about spaming their skills unless they are soloing because Mages will be nuking Inferno and Frost Nova

Clerics - This one has been covered already.

Archers - The best DDs for single Target Enemies like bosses however they too find themselves burning skills like mad in solo play to keep themselves alive easier while conserving stones which is why fighters are there to tank and clerics are there to heal.

Mages - What do I need to say about these they become the ultimate DD class for AOE from Lv 60 onwards. If anything Mages would be the hardest class to solo with in the later levels since they have very low SP stones considering they have to rely on their SP to deal damage and they aren't likely going to get far with lets say attempting to solo an enemy in Trumpy Remains. Without a cleric but even then a cleric may not just cut it because unless the Mages Full End built the Mage wont be pulling any more than 2-3 enemies at once in Trumpy Remains instead of 5+ of which a fighter can do.

So keep that in mind any class can solo but some have different weaknesses and some have more weaknesses than others.
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:04 PM   #4
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Wooo... OK, I'm actually END / SPR build... 0 strength.. not even in gear (ok i might have some, but i dont look for STR gear)...

I have a +9 hammer , 27% crit rate (one cash shop costume of 7%), empowered bash...

I do kill fairly quickly for a cleric. if my bash crits, i take out 40% of a yellow mob. and if i cash restore once, I'm often still on full health by the time the mob is dead.

I dont solo bosses, that's stupid for any class i believe... but for grinding purposes, its not as bad as you make it sound....

And i've got no STR...
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:31 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Hessah View Post
I dont solo bosses, that's stupid for any class i believe... but for grinding purposes, its not as bad as you make it sound....

Soloing bosses is good for hunting good stat boss weapons. I know fighters and clerics were frequently soloing Giant Harpy. I mean lets be honest here if you see the boss and you are alone and you know you can kill it for the chance of a good stated weapon you are going to do it.

Another reason its good to solo bosses is if you are doing a quest and you can't get a party together for the quest. I had to do this for the Leg Tree quest IIRC.

But other than that there is no reason to go around killing them they give low exp compared to the other enemies since you can kill several other weaker enemies over time and overall get more exp.
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Old 10-16-2008, 01:34 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Osiris View Post
I seriously doubt that...that must be some terrible clerics then.... Because clerics can use all their stones and I mean ALL of them before they have to go back because of their healing ability. If they can time it right they run out of each one about the same time. So unless you have like 300+ pots at your disposal at all times its not very likely...even if you have all +9s or something.



Really...that is just your opinion...but clerics bash actually damages about twice the damage as their actually attack when its empowered if not more. And if you decrease cool time thats 2x your actually attack every 4.5 seconds and even if you use your one skill to get rid of cool time for your next attack then thats even better. Which on top of that if you use SC you can even have a lot of critical so its incredible how much a cleric can actually hit. You would be suprised. And I have heard from a couple people that some clerics that are full STR are actually pretty close to being just as strong as some full STR fighters in the 8xs...because of the equipment and use of SC. So it is really easy for a cleric to solo if he really wanted to. On pretty much any level even though it is probably more useful on the higher levels.



Sorry if these seem kind of negative comments but thats just kind of how I feel about this kind of stuff haha
Originally Posted by Silent Wizard View Post
"Your not seeing where i'm coming from though and stupid i really dont think so ..but i can agree .. your just not looking at the simple fact as clerics have extremely poor damage unless you str build ...which wouldn't be the smartiest idea and they dont have as many. damaging attacks I mean they have bash but without empowerment to that or a str based char your still not going to do much .all your argueing is they can heal forever your not looking at how long it would take to kill one thing as oppose to an archer or a fighter ...im not getting on mages cause they are like paper ...which is where a cleric comes in ..im not saying dont solo a cleric i'm doing that right now..low lvl just stated but, clerics are more of party leaders then soloers is all"


In Your Humble Opinion.

Well then it would also be in her humble opinion but if your empowering bash and not heal your kinda just making a cleric pointless because that is why they are there to heal parties and them self and make everyone stronger and stay away from combat. Not to charge in and attack thats not why people count on clerics thats why they count on fighters, if your makinga cleric for bash and not heal. why not just make a fighter really
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Old 10-16-2008, 01:52 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by HeroDie View Post
Well then it would also be in her humble opinion but if your empowering bash and not heal your kinda just making a cleric pointless because that is why they are there to heal parties and them self and make everyone stronger and stay away from combat. Not to charge in and attack thats not why people count on clerics thats why they count on fighters, if your makinga cleric for bash and not heal. why not just make a fighter really
I guess people have their own preferences according to what they want from their chars.

Personally, I know where HeroDie comes from because I'm a party guy. I made my supportive cleric mainly to work in parties (but it's because I'm not very fond of soloing and I always party someone if I get the chance). So yes, I find it boring to solo, even on my fighter because I like to party.

So it comes to down personal preference and choice. There's no right or wrong answer here, I guess.
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Old 10-16-2008, 02:23 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by lamchopz View Post
I guess people have their own preferences according to what they want from their chars.

Personally, I know where HeroDie comes from because I'm a party guy. I made my supportive cleric mainly to work in parties (but it's because I'm not very fond of soloing and I always party someone if I get the chance). So yes, I find it boring to solo, even on my fighter because I like to party.

So it comes to down personal preference and choice. There's no right or wrong answer here, I guess.

Thank you atleast someone sees where i'm coming from on this instead of just telling me im pretty much wrong or stupid about what i'm saying
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Old 11-23-2008, 09:30 PM   #9
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I find solo grinding in Fiesta with any class boring. I fail to see how having an extra stun or an intermittent AoE (let's remember you're soloing, AoEing is not always the smartest idea) could help at all in getting past that boredom factor. I think quests, not class, are the saving grace for soloing.

I think it's important to know/note that Fiesta has changed A LOT in terms of how quickly you level over the past few months. Levelling by yourself (regardless of your class) is no longer as hard as it used to be, especially when you have Karls, Kenton, Shutian, Nus, Nina, and all the class NPC's showering you with experience and coppahs.

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And this will veer off topic but it's in response to those who believe full strength clerics are less capable supporters.

I'm a full strength cleric and am fully capable of supporting my party. IMO endurance just buys you a small amount of time (more HP, block and defense). I'm aware this extra time can be invaluable when supporting at times of absolute crisis or for those who are slightly slow, but otherwise I've found it an unnecessary luxury. I do think it's unfair and offensive when people put down a full strength cleric as less capable of supporting a party simply because they don't have the bonus HP you'd get from an end build (which is like +250).

The reality is that a cleric's ability to support is not based on that extra health, but these factors:
  • They need to understand who deserves top priority with healing. Someone may be half health and someone else near full, but if the person with near full health is receiving damage much more rapidly and dangerously than that person is top priority for healing. It's also important they understand that mobs shift aggression all the time, so healing priorities shift too.
  • A good cleric will monitor more than just health. It's easy for any cleric to look at the health bars and use that to judge who needs heals, but looking at what's happening on screen is also important. The skills being cast and the direction your party is running is a major indicator of when trouble is afoot. A mage casting nova? Expect aggro change. A fighter running to collect mobs? Be prepared to invinci. Another cleric rejuvenating lots? Let's hope they don't get aggro. The list goes on.
  • A good cleric isn't afraid of being cruel in order to keep their party alive. Getting yourself killed to save the party is hardly noble if it leaves your party clericless. It's better to let someone else in your party bite a bullet if mobs are too numerous or powerful - you can always revive them later.
  • A good cleric will revive at the appropriate times. With two minutes to wait for the right oppurtunities to appear, a good cleric will wait for them.
  • A good cleric isn't afraid of getting mob aggro. They know it's a blessing in disguise when healing allies, particuarly in number heavy places like the abyss.
Of course there are other points but hopefully the above covers the essentials. Basically what I'm trying to say is that it's not the stats, but the mindset that counts when supporting as a cleric. No amount of endurance on any cleric will educate them better about appropriate supporting, only a true desire and willingness to learn the best method of supporting matters.

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Clerics in PvP/PvE points

I think clerics aren't major killers in pvp simply because they lack a disable. I find all classes can have a good offensive with full strength (int for mages), but it's the classes that are capable of immobilizing an enemy that really shine in pvp, simply because stuns/disables are always going to the dominating factor in a duel.

Against PvE, I found my cleric on par with my fighter from 1-30. Afterwards my fighter's plethora of skills did lead a clear distinction in power. However the gap is immensely minimized, as others have noted, when using a full strength build. Reason's probably because free stat strength is piercing.

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