Remi's Find Debate

[MaxOff]

Gambling has a specific economic definition, referring to wagering money or something of material value on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods. Typically, the outcome of the wager is evident within a short period of time.

A great Definition of what Gambling is. (Look for others goolgle "define: gambling")

So lets see if that Definition fits on Remi's Rare Find's.

wagering money or something of material value
U can do both, u can wager a fixed amount of SparkCash or 3 Items u won before.

on an event with an uncertain outcome
It is fully uncertian.

with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods.

Yep the only intend is to win material goods, the payshop items.

So it looks like Remi's Rare Find's is indeed Gambling.

Edit:
So the next Question is if its a form of Gambling that is appropriate for kids to play.

[Ivramire]

Kids would still need their parent's/caretakers financial information or consent before getting any Sparkcash.


I guess if the parent's okay with it...?

[Lady-Loki]

A great Definition of what Gambling is. (Look for others goolgle "define: gambling")

So lets see if that Definition fits on Remi's Rare Find's.

wagering money or something of material value
U can do both, u can wager a fixed amount of SparkCash or 3 Items u won before.

on an event with an uncertain outcome
It is fully uncertian.

with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods.

Yep the only intend is to win material goods, the payshop items.

So it looks like Remi's Rare Find's is indeed Gambling.

Edit:
So the next Question is if its a form of Gambling that is appropriate for kids to play.

With gambling there is a chance the outcome will be zero return on the investment. No guarantee of ROI.

With Remi you will receive goods for your investment. A guaranteed ROI.

It could just as easily have been built as a "Surprise" Box purchase and you would still get something from the box for your purchase price. Instead, to make it more cute and animated they made it look like a gumball machine.

If Outspark changes it to a "Surprise" Box purchase with the outcome results unaltered would that make those who see it as gambling less bothered?

Honestly, if you want to get nit-picky on what constitutes gambling or not you could throw a boatload of everyday perfectly legal matters into the mix

• insurance: betting on getting sick or injured?
• 401K: betting on that baby growing with returns on the stock & bond options invested in?
• Taking a matter to court (sue an individual or company): hoping to win that case and get a monetary settlement?
• Extended warranties on electronics (or other goods): betting on a failure that you will want replaced?

Really, if you want to call it gambling then take the money you could spend on a Remi Rare Find and get a lawyer to sue Outspark. Bet you get a zero ROI on that one.

[MaxOff]

So its a guaranteed return on investment(ROI)?
Is that so? So if give 5items back, to get another try i have a return on investment? ... No i dont have, i just lost 80% of the money i spended without getting anything.

Not to mention that these Items are untrable, so the items are actually worthless if u dont want them. Or at leasts just 20% of what u spend for them. (See above)

Even in the actual value some of the item are more and some less worth what u spend.

So in the end i can not agree: Remi's Rare Finds does not have a guaranteed return on investment.


What i think of Remi's Rare Finds is that: Outspark wants to trick people in spending more money. Unfortunatly kids cant always restrain themself from trying again and again until they get what they want. And Outspark supports that behavior, actually, i believe, they count on it.

And just like i said before: These items are wortless if u dont want them, because thinks are always worth as much, as people are ready to pay for it.

[Hessah]

So its a guaranteed return on investment(ROI)?
Is that so? So if give 5items back, to get another try i have a return on investment? ... No i dont have, i just lost 80% of the money i spended without getting anything.

Not to mention that these Items are untrable, so the items are actually worthless if u dont want them. Or at leasts just 20% of what u spend for them. (See above)

Even in the actual value some of the item are more and some less worth what u spend.

So in the end i can not agree: Remi's Rare Finds does not have a guaranteed return on investment.

And just like i said before: These items are wortless if u dont want them, because thinks are always worth as much, as people are ready to pay for it.

When you get something in return and you CHOOSE to NOT WANT IT yourself.. you cant say that its a zero return in investment.

You put a deposit in a bank (invest your money), they give u $6 for interest, you give it away to a homeless and u go "that bank gave me zero return coz i threw the $6 away"... like that makes sense to you? LOL

Remi's rare find is like.. Lucky Dip in primary school... if Lucky Dip is considered "gambling" in your country then... fine.. i'll give u the credit...




EDIT: (Why isnt anyone posting! Now i hv to edit my post to avoid double post LOL)

Why do u think so? Do u think an educated adult would play Remi's Rare Finds? Any adult should know that if they are playing a game like these they will always loose in the end. Just like in a casino.

OK, now I consider myself to be an educated adult. I work, I've been to school + uni for 15 years. Is in a job that not anyone can just step in a do.

Yes, i DO play remi's rare find. In the LONG run, I believe that I win in the end, instead of lose. I've got a raccoon, bug, pegasus, 2x crit glasses, 2x crit suits, red eyes, thew away 2-3 def charms...

If you add the values up, I would've got at least 27000SC worth of stuff, for only $20 (14,000SC)

So i cant agree with you on that one

[Lady-Loki]

First of all, I started this thread to tell people of the great things I have gotten from Remi and to point out that I got T4 Gold Nines. NOT for a debate on gambling, legalized or otherwise, but, as you seem intent on badgering your point I will point out:

Your assumption would be correct if gambling means that an random event may happen. But as far as i know gambling means something different. So the whole logical construct is not correct.

Herein is the answer to your issue. To you it is considered gambling, to many it is not. With as many varied opinions on what constitutes gambling it will depend on what any given individual considers gambling.

Additionally, I believe Outspark has corporate attorneys on staff that would have stopped them from deploying the Remi feature if it were illegal by the standards applicable to North America (where this version is licensed for).

Why do u think so? Do u think an educated adult would play Remi's Rare Finds? Any adult should know that if they are playing a game like these they will always loose in the end. Just like in a casino.

I personally take offense with this statement considering I am an educated adult as well as a Management employee of a major corporation and I play Remi's Rare Find's because it is not only fun, but I have received several very nice items (refer back to my opening post please). You are making assumptions with that statement that only shows that you apparently suffer a mental scotoma regarding the variety of persons subscribing to Outspark (BTW, you probably wont find Mental Scotoma in your wiki so here is a link for you: Mental Scotoma)

I am sorry but i dont see a relation to the topic: "Is Remi's Rare Finds a gambling game, or not?" Which was the topic we were discussing right?

I again wish to point out that not one of your posts is truly applicable to my OP. Perhaps rather than spam up my post regarding my good luck and fortunate Remi finds you should have just started your own thread and titled it appropriately "Is Remi's Rare Finds a gambling game, or not?"


Mods, please move all of the gambling debate posts from my Remi’s Good Fortune Thread or close my thread completely since it has steered so far off course.

[booyah8876]

Lol.

How is it even gambling?

Honestly gambling is the spending of money with the chance of getting nothing in return.

You're just buying a random item out of the shop for 1500SC.

There's nothing to it.

If it increases revenue because it's getting people to think, "Wow, I can get Iron Case for only 1500?!" then people go spend 100$ to get that pull out of the find, then applause to Outspark.

The player will have the iron case still, plus items that they didn't even expect to get/want.

If every time is a win, that's hardly gambling.

[Yosei]

I wouldn't consider it gambling because you always get something back.

[lamchopz]

I humourously called it "casino ad" whenever a GM announced "play remi's blah blah" but reality is I never paid it much attention, so it never occurred to me that this may be a form of gambling.

For me, it's all about freedom. If you can afford some cash and really want to play it, go for it. If not, just joke about it like I always do.

Outspark has to make money somehow to keep their business going. I simply regard this as one of their (successful) attempts at doing so. Again, it's good enough that they gave us a free client and server(s) to enjoy ourselves. Let's just leave this as it is.