Originally Posted by MaxOff
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Miles_Glorioso , im really glad for your last posts, but there is some important error in your thoughts:
-Every Players that joins the game, will leave it someday too.
-GoldSellers do not sell the drops they farmed to the community, but to the npc's
-If my overvation is correct: GoldSeller mainly generate there money by selling enchantment services.
---they resell money, not generate
---are the mayor buyer for dusts
---are buying from the cashshop
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Thanks for your remarks!
1. It's not important to note that every joining player will leave someday - by having joined and doing a little bit in the game they have added money to the economy and when they leave it will still be there.
2. Gold Seller Bots will definitely sell drops they farmed to NPCs, but Gold Sellers who do not Bot know as well as everyone else does that drops CAN fetch a better price if sold directly to another player. I've discussed both situations in my analysis already though.
3. The "reselling" of money is an interesting notion I had not explored - and I can definitely see a clear benefit here for the gold sellers. However unless anybody actually has real statistics on what gold sellers actually do to get their gold, everything mentioned pertaining to Gold Sellers is all hypothetical and should be treated as such.
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Originally Posted by Ralath
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How does that differentiate between a person who, say, farms a lot of sap in the the sap farms in AEW and someone who only farms and only gets money from quests? Obviously, the person who has farmed a lot of Sap and then NPC'ed it has a lot more money to add than someone who has simply gotten money from the quests. The game has a near limitless supply of ways to earn money, simply by NPCing mushrooms, ore, petals, starfish, clam meat, whatever.
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I have explored both of these notions in both of my analyses. But to expand further, the point is that both scenarios generate gold to be added to the economy. Thus inflation is occurring. The exact amount of inflation is as you observed is vastly different between the two sources of gold. My notes on quest-related inflation are strictly noting its presence and are by no means arguing it is the primary source of inflation, especially after the addition of my second analysis. Farming and NPC'ing is a very large source of inflation in the game.
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Originally Posted by Ralath
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The thing with this is Gold Sellers don't... affect the economy otherwise in any other way. That is, they aren't spending money for skills, or equips, or HP/SP stones like real players do--that money "disappears" into the game forever (and I'm going to go out on a limb and say that is good for keeping down inflation since it is removing money from the economy). Also I'm assuming they aren't getting their money from quests since the money that is earned through quests is actually not a lot compared to the same amount of time spent farming. Not to mention it's hard for bots to figure out quests and what to kill and to turn in quests.
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It is correct to note that real players are a strong source of deflation in the economy to help counter the inflation from NPC'ing. It should also be noted that real players also do a fair bit of NPC'ing themselves. The fluxuation in inflation related to real players is very difficult to quantify though.
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Originally Posted by Ralath
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I dunno about this one but I don't think Gold Sellers actually sell (vend) the drops they farm. I've always been under the assumption that Gold Sellers are using bots that can farm or mine and they will later sell these drops to an NPC and since they aren't limited by time, this is highly profitable for them. (I wouldn't be surprised if one gold-selling company could be run by just a couple people.)
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Right, as noted earlier in this response there is a higher profit margin to be made by vending to players - but NPC'ing is something one would have to do if you were using bots.
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Originally Posted by Ralath
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Also, another thing to note is that unlike the real world, there isn't a certain amount of money that players have to earn in order to "play." Yes, it's nice to have HP/SP stones, but those aren't necessary in the sense that IRL, food and other expenses are necessary. So for many people (like me), vending stuff that I don't want is a bonus. I would still do fine whether I sold/bought stuff or not. I know that whenever I cannot sell my equips, I will continually lower my price until I can sell them. However (and correct me on this if I'm wrong), retailers feel like they have to keep raising the price of everything to keep up with the expenses. A character's most basic expense in Fiesta is from the NPC, which do not ever change prices.
Basically, I don't consider Fiesta to be dependent on currency flow from one player to another.
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Since you have brought this up, this is actually not an Economics concept but rather a Game Theory concept. To avoid complications, if a player is very very very dedicated to playing Fiesta and levelling up or doing whatever they do and are trying to do it as quickly as possible, NPC'ing becomes a better and better source of currency as one needs money quicker and quicker (and acquires drops quicker and quicker).
But if you had all the time in the world to sell your stuff, or if your competition was very very small (or if you have a very high demand, the proportions of demand to competition here hold the same effect so this is really the same thing), or you have an extremely rare and valuable drop, then you would prefer to sell your stuff rather than NPC it.
Of course not everybody has all the time in the world - so to extend from your observation, a lot of people cause a great deal of inflation because of this.
Also, I don't believe there is much of an economy to look at in Fiesta, true there are things one can look at but in all honesty if water were currency (metaphorically speaking) then Fiesta much resembles the "Flat World" concept in which water falls from the heavens and then falls from the earth - so really there is no stability. In actuality, a "Fiesta Economy" is hypothetical altogether and the only thing an analysis can lend to is an explaination for small fluxuations that players may feel from time to time.
As pointed out, NPC'ing things brings money into the economy, and buying skills/items from NPCs removes money from the economy. It's an entirely unrealistic situation to even attempt to analyze. Ironically the "Vortex of Money" that surrounds NPCs parallels a very long analysis I did on the effects that the "illegal drug market" has on the rest of the economy (drug lords are hoarders and givers of money, outside the drug market they would appear to be themselves a vortex of money, limitless amounts coming and going).
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