Wikileaks

Jikanu · 12-01-2010, 03:17 AM

Good, bad, or unimportant? Your thoughts?

**Rightclaw** · 12-01-2010, 06:01 AM

Hmm....I have no opinion. However, I think that if the Government willfully lies to the people, then the people who expose the lies should be known as Heroes and should not be charged with any crime. I do not know enough about the situation to decide if that's what they did though.

There has been some completely retarded rhetoric coming from some people in Congress and people on the news though. I've heard some people say they are enemies of the state, they should be named a terrorist organization, etc. uh..when Wikileaks starts flying planes into buildings then we can talk about calling them a terrorist organization.

Anyway, someone please explain what the difference between the NYT/WSJ/any other major news organization posting secret documents, and Wikileaks posting secret documents?

**Helion** · 12-01-2010, 06:21 AM

I'm enjoying Wkikleaks right now, personally. It's fun watching the worthless corrupt bastards in office right now squirm when their constant lies are exposed.

**Belaslav** · 12-01-2010, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by Rightclaw

Anyway, someone please explain what the difference between the NYT/WSJ/any other major news organization posting secret documents, and Wikileaks posting secret documents?

Well, starting with the fact that most of WikiLeaks materials are STOLEN from the GOVERNMENT, no newspaper today publishes tens of thousands of secret documents in a couple hours.

As for my opinion... Well, I can be sure of one thing: Someday, shit will hit the fan, and Julian Assange is gonna go "missing, presumed dead."

**Belaslav** · 12-01-2010, 06:34 AM

Originally Posted by Helion

I'm enjoying Wkikleaks right now, personally. It's fun watching the worthless corrupt bastards in office right now squirm when their constant lies are exposed.

How many documents did you read through so far?

**Helion** · 12-01-2010, 08:01 AM

Only got through about 15 before the site went dead, have been looking at various UK newspapers to get bits and pieces of stuff since then. Unfortunately, the US papers have been very lax in any sustantive coverage. And as for the head of Wikileaks, the UK has put out a warrant for the guys arrest. Will they catch him alive or dead?

**Rightclaw** · 12-01-2010, 08:02 AM

The rape charges against him sound like pure bs to me.

**Helion** · 12-01-2010, 08:07 AM

Yeah, just a way to get him into prison, where he can be some 350lb man's prison bitch. And to correct myself, I guess Interpol is the one currently issuing charges, with the UK, US, Switzerland, and Australia in hot pursuit.

Jikanu · 12-01-2010, 02:42 PM

i have no opinion as of yet, so im going to play devils advocate.

Considering the fact that most of the documents in this last leak were about ambassadors, who we all know are full of shit anyways, doesnt that weaken any resolve for peaceful diplomacy?

**Ralath** · 12-01-2010, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by Helion

I'm enjoying Wkikleaks right now, personally. It's fun watching the worthless corrupt bastards in office right now squirm when their constant lies are exposed.

I'm not nationalistic by any stretch but I guess I'm having a really hard time understanding your stance. For the most part, there hasn't been anything too outrageous (that I've read). The most embarrassing things about the cables have been what have been said about world leaders. And quite frankly, I'm sure that you say things about your boss, or your relatives, or whoever that you wouldn't say to their faces. The Guantanamo Bay cable was probably one of the more embarassing documents (paying the Maldives to take prisoners was a little unsavory and incentivizing Slovenia to trade prisoners for face time with the president is a little... unfriendly), but I'm not that it qualifies for the lies...

At any rate, I don't think enjoying someone else's discomfort because they were doing their job is a really good reason to support the Wikileaks. But to each their own, I guess.

Originally Posted by Rightclaw

Hmm....I have no opinion. However, I think that if the Government willfully lies to the people, then the people who expose the lies should be known as Heroes and should not be charged with any crime. I do not know enough about the situation to decide if that's what they did though.

Personally, I've been reading the cables just because I think they're so interesting. The deal to build consensus around sanctions against Iran was particularly interesting. I've actually been really impressed with the style of writing, of reporting, of analysis, and of recording history that the diplomats do. The cables are actually very readable. But so far, I haven't seen too many of the "lies" you guys keep talking about. Do the cables always match up to what is reported in the paper? No. But there is probably some benefit with the King of Saudi Arabia not publicly announcing that the Ahmadinejad should be replaced. I think that there has been an overdramatization over the whole "the government is so secretive/evil/corrupt/blahblahblah" argument. I don't think that the cables show that at all. And I don't think the cables will affect diplomatic relationships too much. But I do think that this leaked release could cause people that work for and in US (and any other country's really) diplomacy to be less open about what they share. And that's unfortunate.

And quite honestly, do you really expect the government to tell you everything? I don't. Is that a wrong assumption? I don't know. But I realize that there are certain things that are probably best not shared with the general public (and the world at large).