Weapons and block

[Lafieru]

What's the point on getting endurance on other characters then? What I'm proposing will make the stats more versatile for all classes. Laffy's argument was self defeating. She argued that it was balanced that a cleric doesn't get double the critical rate from spirit. While that's all well and true, what's the relation between her critical argument and my block one? Her example isn't even on the same line of thought as mine. I'm asking if a stat would be more fair if it benefitted all classes equally. Endurance doesn't do this. Only shield users get block from endurance, making it a less worthwhile stat for non shield users. I could hardly call that balanced.

Well, I meant it to be more of an example for my argument. Spr for clerics and End for DDs are two examples of stats not benefiting all classes equally, and my argument is still that a stat really _should not_ benefit all classes equally.

BTW, I actually think Fiesta is already more than fair with the stat bonuses. In Diablo II, Sorcs get get 4 HP per vit while Sorcs get 2 HP per vit. In D&D, a magic user will typically get something like 1d4 HP per con, while a fighter will get 1d10 or 1d12.

"Unfair"? Yes. But there's a reason why many RPG makers think "unfair" is the way it's supposed to be.

[SockPuppet]

I have to agree with the sentiment that not all stats should benefit all classes equally. If you're not a mage, guess what? Int doesn't help that much. If you are a mage, guess what? Str doesn't help that much. End doesn't benefit all classes equally, but it's hardly the only stat to do that. Heck, I view it as one of the more versatile statistics myself.
Also on the subject of being able to block with weapons in real life: the construct I have in my mind of wizard staves is that they may not, in themselves, be delicate, but the magic they're enchanted with is. I mean, sure, you COULD block with a stave with several layers of magic on it, but if that would risk ruining the enchantments, would you want to? Same with bows, sure, you CAN block an axe with a bow/crossbow in real life, but after two or three blocks your bow's not exactly firing straight anymore.

[Pedobear]

The sad thing is, is that i'm a Cleric. Yeah, I made the switch to help out others rather than just myself. Anyways, whats wrong with some other class having like a 1% of getting a block? Would that REALLY throw the game off balance? I don't think so. But it would help every so often especially if it happens to be a killing blow. Mages are not tanks nor are Archers, we all know that. In fact, Clerics aren't tanks either but they can, can they not? I know the Clerics got shafted. But technically... that ain't being shafted. They're still tough as hell. Anyways, why should a Mage or any other class be forced to place points into END just to benefit from some small blockage bonus? It just isn't fair and it'll cause them to suffer in other areas. Such as damage dealing, evasion, etc.

so its unfair that a mage and archer have to choose where to put their points and take the good with the bad?

so what about those fighters that have to decide pure end or 25 spr? or mages who decide pure spr or pure end or add str?

the point of this is to make end a viable option for all classes. As it stands, the piddily increase in HP and def do next to nothing for a mage or archer. Now increase in HP, def AND blockrate might make it a bit more useful. adding too much block to either of these classes is too far extreme in the other direction however because they are damage dealers, not meant to tank hits. If you gave a mage that can do shittons of damage AND tank some hits, its now overpowered.

[Lafieru]

Spirit does benefit all classes equally. Every class gets the critical bonus, the MDef bonus and the SP bonus.

I still disagree, by virtue that Spirit gives, on aggregate, a percentage increase to DPS, and clerics have a small base DPS for that percentage to work on. If you want to toss that aside, though, that's fine. That still doesn't mean that all stats have to be fair for every class for the game to be fair, right? You did see my above examples of other, staple RPGs that have stats calculation that are mathematically "unfair" between classes, right?

[_JunShyr_*FTW*]

It's perfectly plausible that a person blocks with any weapon. People thinking that staves and bows are fragile clearly haven't ever handled them in real life. With staves, I'm talking about combat staves of course, but magic staves and combat staves would essentially be the same. Bows aren't so fragile, they've been known to be used to block sword attacks and what not before.

I guess thats true, lets all go watch some films where wood blocked metal, such as lord of the rings lol ^^

[Pedobear]

I guess thats true, lets all go watch some films where wood blocked metal, such as lord of the rings lol ^^

from level 20-40, all bows are metal.

the level 50 bow is composite and i know some composite materials are stronger than metal, so...

[Enraya]

Hm ...
I think that everyone here is thinking that by getting more block for the archer/mage, they'll block like half of the hits that are directed at them. It doesn't work that way. Shields, obviously, are going to be much better for block than your bare hands, some kind of bow, or a long stick that can use magic. But I mean it doesn't hurt to be able to block at least some of the time though, right? A pure end fighter with a shield is going to block much more than a pure end fighter without a shield, cause the shield - yes, the big flat circular thing - is going to block some of the hits. It's that simple. If mages/archers put points into end and not get blocks, they're missing out on a lot, right? It's not like archers are going to block half of the hits and then evade the rest. A shield can make a lot of difference. If you were fighting a street gang, in which situation do you think you'll most likely win: one where you're fighting in limpy lingerie or one where you're still fighting in lingerie but you've got a big piece of wood with you for which you can block and hit to some extent?