Low level in KQ = selfish?

[AngellicDiety]

Whilst I agree that you really shouldn't attempt a loaded Minidragon until 50, it seems a bit arrogant to say that Low levels in the KQ are selfish. If you take the time to reread your original post the tone itself indicates:

1) Frustration which is completely understandable.
2) Some bitterness for loosing which is completely understandable.
3) Some sadness that people just dont get that they arent ready which is understandable.
4) Some Selfishness yourself...

You categorize most of the entrance levels as useless, which I myself am guilty of during some of the Robo King Quests. But at the same time you, sound a little selfish yourself caring only about the success of the KQ - indirectly referring to the approximate thirty-thousand experience point reward.

Whilst I completely agree that being 50 helps, I dont think its fair to categorize the entrance levels as selfish when I guarantee you, almost all of us are selfish in the respect that we are caring about the treasure chest and large sum of experience...

[Allissa]

Here are my views on the whole thing. While I am still pretty much a noob myself (highest character is only level 28), and I have not seen the bigger KQs yet, I have seen a ton of the slime, mara, and GH KQs.

Joining a KQ in and of itself is not a selfish act. Dont care what level you are. This game is supposed to be a fun way to be social. While I do admit that level does play a lot in the success, it is not the only factor, and I will also admit that I have a lot more fun when we win the KQs.

I do however have to admit that I have had an absolute blast in a KQ that we lost. I was at level 15 with my fighter, highest fighter in the KQ by oh I dont know about 8 levels :P, and we only had 1 cleric that was like level 7 as well. Long story short, we made it all the way to the end, killed the king, but only had 3 people left including myself, and died to the rest. It was my last life, and the clerics last life. Needless to say, we failed. But the fact that we got as far as we did, and killed the king, when everything was stacked against us really surprised me. I honestly remember that I was the only person above level 11 in that one. Enough of the fun aspect, on to the winning aspect.

I want to argue one point. I did a GH the other day with 3 other warriors, I was level 27 all 3 of the others were over level 30. I ended up tanking and did a wonderful job. So the whole thing about higher levels always tanking doesnt always apply. Only real true argument I had to make.

As far as greed. I dont feel that someone that is level 5 or 6 joining slime is greedy, unless they sit back at the spawn and just want the free 5 levels and chest. That is greedy. Just like I dont think someone joining mara at 17 is greedy, again unless they sit at the spawn point. What I think is truely greedy are the 4 people that we had in one mara KQ that didnt have any armor or weapons.....wtf is that? And their response "Oh I broke it right before KQ"....so ummmm brains people, buy another one? Or better yet, just dont join. People like that on top of people that sit at the spawn point are the epidemy of greed. They joined the KQ with no gear or weapon in hopes of something decent dropping out of their chest.

anyways I am really starting to ramble, and my entire sentence structure is screwed by now. LOL. hope I didnt upset anyone but this is just the way I feel about it. I attempt to join every KQ I can because I have an absolute blast in them. I came from a very big raid/pvp guild in WoW, and before that I was in one of the strongest raid guilds in EQ. I enjoy getting together with loads of other people and just walking over top of an entire city ....carrnage...get some....its fun... I have been in some really bad KQs that we somehow won, and I have been in a few that were an absolute blast that we lost.

Oh crap I did have one more point to bring up. This happened just the other day in GH. We ended up finding the last key about 45 seconds before time was up. On the other side of the map completely from the gate. Needless to say we failed. 5 or 6 people started yelling about the whole KQ being noobs and thanks for wasting their ******* time. Ok cool, well it would have been....if those 5 or 6 people, plus 3 others hadnt been sitting at the final gate while doing absolutely nothing while the rest of us were out trying to find the key. No wonder we didnt win...People do your part, be a team, help out the lower guys, and dont be asses and all will be good. Another perfect example of good team work no matter what levels. Fighter, I was level 21 at the time, tanked mara, 1 cleric, 2 mages, 2 archers, 10 fighters, the highest levels other than me were the cleric and the mages, all 3 were around 24 iirc. we walked through, blasted our way to the end, killed mara and marlone in 2 beautiful pulls with me tanking. and still had about 25 minutes to spare. Now I know thats not the fastest, I completed it at level 25 with 34 minutes to spare, but look at the odds and the numbers. It was pretty amazing, no one even thought we would come close. That just backs up the brains over numbers statement thats all. Ok seriously sorry this is so long.

[Aery]

Well, failure happens anytime and anywhere, so it wouldn't be right by blaming it on the low levels. The whole point of KQ is team work, whether what levels or classes you are. Is always nice to be confident in it being a succeed but don't always aim too high.

I'll use Robo KQ as my example since that's the only one I participate in, regularly. I didn't really participated until I'd reached lvl 38+ because I find it a waste of scrolls, after having to die at least 10 times. But I have always wonder as to why robo [A] takes the longest to recruit while [B] & [C] are fast. Then I was told that [A] was full of low levels, so would you consider those who only join [B] & [C], selfish?

As far as I know, as long as the KQ have enough cleric, a good tank and decent amount of damage dealers, and team work, it would work. This is a game, and as long as you try your best in KQ, be proud.

[Albireo]

Allissa im sorry but i didnt read your whole post :P (it was really long)
But i agree with what i read,
I think that its not lvl but maybe experience.
If you have a tank who does NOT know how to tank... bye bye mages xD
same with pullers and clerics. if they dont know what there doing then they wont do what they should hense them doing nothing.

just as an example of how lvl doesnt matter,
I was in GH KQ and we had hardly any time left before the last giant Graverobber and were about 1/4 away from the exit when we get the key,
a lvl 31 (i think it was that) runs back the way we came the LONG way
and loooonnng story short we run out of time right when he makes it to the gate costing us the KQ.
He was a noob, i mean the whole time he kept saying he was all that and was horrible at tanking (not using skill while fighting) but he was high lvl,
and low lvled people were much more of a help.
(m turning into a hypocrit this is pretty long)
Soo i think it all matters on if you know what to do.

[Stryfe]

Well, if you base things around circumstance, it's not really being selfish.

There are many instances in where KQ's will fail due to an insufficient group. Too many Clerics, Not enough damagers, not enough clerics, no tanks, etc. Also, due to a wide pool of people to enter KQs now, its really not being selfish at all to join a KQ at a low lvl, because if you don't, some other person will.

I agree that being a lower level means a minimal contribution, especially in Mini Dragon KQ, and you're a low lvl fighter. However, in the end, it can't truely be called selfish due to chance and the overall set up of Kindgom Quests. Although some classes are more useless in certain KQs at lower lvls, level limits were set for a reason.

I'm not quite sure if I even made sense to myself, so disregard this comment if you're all "huh? O_o"

[Triumph]

Not necessarily.

A cleric of any level can be of use in a situation as you have mentioned. For example, a level 33 cleric can almost match a higher level cleric if they know what to do in a Robo KQ. Similarly, a mage that knows what to do and doesn't get him or herself killed can at least participate. They may miss more often or do less damage, but if they aren't some egoistical asshole or a complete idiot, they should be allowed to participate.

[CursedMagus]

I see no problem with lowbie's joining a group. Besides, how else do you expect people to earn EXP quickly? Grinding is mind-numbing and takes the fun out of any game. So a lot of people, like myself, join a Kingdom Quest to level up faster. There's rarely ever that many low leveled people joining a Kingdom Quest and if it fails its not their fault (unless they actually did something to ruin the Kingdom Quest). The only people I can not stand are leechers and I do, do my best to kill them off but thats difficult being a Mage.

[Lafieru]

1) Frustration which is completely understandable.
2) Some bitterness for loosing which is completely understandable.
3) Some sadness that people just dont get that they arent ready which is understandable.
4) Some Selfishness yourself...

I do have to say, your post is amazingly perceptive. And no, I don't mean that in a sarcastic way - I do have to agree with you on every one of those points, including the last. Yes, I am selfish - both in Fiesta and in real life. But personally, I don't actually place any judgement on "selfish" by itself, since many of us (or at least me) live in capitialist societies which function because of selfishness. I guess my defense would be a distinction between selfishness that leads to a greater good and blind selfishness. In real life, someone who starts their own business is an example of the first - of course they want to make money, but in the process, they'll likely create more jobs and bolster the economy. Nothing bad with that selfishness. A theif, on the other hand, is an obvious example of blind selfishness - someone who ultimately hurts their whole society in the end. So, coming back to KQs, yes, I'll say again that I am selfish and I won't try not to be - but I will try to be selfish in a way that helps, or at least doesn't hurt, other people.

Anyway, thanks to all the responses so far - I love seeing everyone's perspective, even those that disagree with me. =D

[Hessah]

WOW everyone have so much to say.. i'm proud to say i read about 95% of Allissa's post and totally agree.

The level limits are there for a reason, they've already stopped to lvl 1-32 from joining robo, isnt that good enough? (apparently not but i dont really have a problem with it)

But i guess the story changes a bit with Honeying KQ as there's only a limit of 10 people... but no one joins anyway, so you may as well hv some lower levels to help fill the gap.

Cant comment on the dragon KQ coz i cant get in yet ><

Anyway, I just wanna mention after reading undeadmith's post
@undeadmith It is normal that people only heal the tank and not their party members during KQ, party members should pots/stones themselves unless there's many spare clerics around. (a tank will need at least 3 clerics)

And there's no such thing as KSing in KQ... you're suppose to put your force together and kill mobs faster... so its nice u go and tank a mob thats not already being attacked, but its also OK to help kill other mobs, if a lot are already atking.

[Allissa]

i think the difference we need to look at is the difference between just being a little selfish, and knowing how to get what you want (which will usually in the long run help a lot of the people that were mad at you to start with). and being completely self-centered. there is a very big difference between the two but I am not gonna go into it because I already made one really long post. :P