Deity Existence

[Jikanu]

This is just speculation and has nothing to do with my side of the debate, but... this thread is becoming more and more about human nature... if for no other reason i'll stick around to see how this plays out.

im heading to bed though. wont be back till 9 or so PST. 'Night.

[Vasu]

EDIT: sorry vas, your post didnt show up till after i posted.

If you dont see how it addresses your point, im sorry, but i cant make it any more simple. he would have to use less of his strength.

Less of his strength to do what? To lift the stone? Or to create it? Either way, I still don't understand your point, because what you are saying is irrelevant. Can he lift or can't he lift? Can he make or can't he make? Come on, let's hear a straight answer.

To be human, to me, is to feel. to to care for a specific person. to see the beauty in life. to see have emotion. If you feel love to multiple persons, it's honestly not love. Love is also the dedication of your heart to one person. Romantic Love =/= Familial love, btw.

It's not love to YOU. This is YOUR subjective opinion. If you have some proof to show that romantic love can only be for one person, then let's see it.

And we know nothing other than what we've learned through personal experience. i would never cheat on my girlfriend though. Love is the feeling of wanting nothing more than to simply be by the side of someone; to care for them, and protect them from all the sadness and fear and crappiness in the world.

And all that can also be for two or three people. All that you described can easily be said about my feelings for my mother. If you can come up with one point which differentiates romantic love from familial love, aside from the desire to have sex, I'd like to hear it.

[Jikanu]

Romantic love by deffinition a special love. It's one that you can only TRULY feel for one person. sure, you can get plenty of knockoffs of it, but true love is only between two people. And you asked for my deffinition. I gave it to you. and i know nothing than what i've found through personal experience. If you feel differently as does your partner, fine. but i believe true love can only be felt between two people.

And do you not understand the concept of affection? the concept of feeling a special place in your heart for one person? trust me, i have no sexual desires, and i wont until marraige. It's a different feeling. if you've ever felt familial love, it's the feeling of closeness, of seeing yourself in a mirror, and resemblance, and unity; Romantic love is the love of an individual. it's full of discovery, and the joy of learning about the person; it's love of differences. it's indefinable yet also simple at the same time; Both make you want to protect those involved, but Romantic Love is far different from Familial Love.

And honestly, i cant make the description any more simple. you're the one who requested the examples. God can make a stone which he cant lift by using less of his strength, just as you can not lift a relatively light stone by exerting a slight amount of force. I cant make it any more simple.

[Vasu]

Romantic love by deffinition a special love. It's one that you can only TRULY feel for one person. sure, you can get plenty of knockoffs of it, but true love is only between two people. And you asked for my deffinition. I gave it to you. and i know nothing than what i've found through personal experience. If you feel differently as does your partner, fine. but i believe true love can only be felt between two people.

Okay then I'll say just as simply the true love can exist between one person and two or more other people.

And do you not understand the concept of affection? the concept of feeling a special place in your heart for one person? trust me, i have no sexual desires, and i wont until marraige. It's a different feeling. if you've ever felt familial love, it's the feeling of closeness, of seeing yourself in a mirror, and resemblance, and unity; Romantic love is the love of an individual. it's full of discovery, and the joy of learning about the person; it's love of differences. it's indefinable yet also simple at the same time; Both make you want to protect those involved, but Romantic Love is far different from Familial Love.

You've said that familial love is the love caused by similarities, and romantic love is the one caused by differences. Why does that have to be? I could just as likely fall in love with a girl who also likes Iron Maiden, supports Liverpool FC, etc, because we are so similar, and seemingly "made for each other".

And I could just as easily love a cousin who I talk with and holds different opinions from mine, we could sit and have long talks. If he/she likes comedy movies where I might like action, we could show each other what we like, that is "discovery" too. The reasons you give aren't solid, because they could apply for either "kind" of love as I've shown.

And honestly, i cant make the description any more simple. you're the one who requested the examples. God can make a stone which he cant lift by using less of his strength, just as you can not lift a relatively light stone by exerting a slight amount of force. I cant make it any more simple.

'

So there is something he cannot do, as you've said yourself, whether he makes it using "less strength" or "more strength", he is making a stone so heavy he cannot lift.

[Jikanu]

im saying he's trying less hard to lift it. and as for Love, yes, it can be caused by similarities too. But the point still stands that it's about discovery. And it's how you view the relationship coming into it, too. If you see them as your cousin, you'll probably feel that way about them; a familial or friendly love.

And perhaps for other people it could work with multiple partners. But you also have to take account morals, and the fact that we learn off of personal experience. For some, it's impossible to love anyone other than their partner, nor would they want to. True love is a spiritual connection between too people; fate, sort of, if you believe in that.

And i dont see how your first paragraph had any relavance whatsoever... care to elaborate?

[Vasu]

im saying he's trying less hard to lift it. and as for Love, yes, it can be caused by similarities too. But the point still stands that it's about discovery. And it's how you view the relationship coming into it, too. If you see them as your cousin, you'll probably feel that way about them; a familial or friendly love.

Are you saying he can't lift it because he's trying less hard to lift it? If so, why is he trying less hard to lift it?

And perhaps for other people it could work with multiple partners. But you also have to take account morals, and the fact that we learn off of personal experience. For some, it's impossible to love anyone other than their partner, nor would they want to. True love is a spiritual connection between too people; fate, sort of, if you believe in that.

And i dont see how your first paragraph had any relavance whatsoever... care to elaborate?

When the multiple marriage is consented to by all those involved and affected, there is nothing wrong with. A man/woman can sincerely and wholeheartedly, romantically love more than one other person. True love doesn't only have to be between two people. Just because you say it doesn't make it true.

My first para was in reference to your simple statement without any evidence or proof that true love cannot exist between more than two people. You were just stating it, so I decided to just state my own opinion too.

[Jikanu]

*shrugs* This is really a topic that involves morals. so we are, of course, going to get different opinions. i think that when you get married, or are in a romantic relationship, it should be a complete dedication of your heart to that one person... one special person who is like no other for you. but if you choose to believe differently, i dont really care.

and we're talking possibility on the stone thing. he can possibly NOT lift it if he tries less hard to lift it.

[Hraesvelg]

That implies a choice not to lift the proverbial stone, not an inability. The reason it's hard to wrap your head around the example is that it is a paradox. Our minds just don't handle those very well. It boils down to that the very idea of ultimate omnipotence is inherently contradictory to itself.

[Jikanu]

but it HAS Been shown in the past that he can cut his power down by making himself human (i.e. Christ on the Cross).

And the truely paradoxical nature of it is what makes it useless. An infinitely powerful Deity can lift anything, and lifts things regardless of weight. therefore the weight of the stone wouldnt even be a factor.

[Hraesvelg]

Which is the point exactly. An omnipotent figure, by definition, is all-powerful. It can do anything. Except, apparently, make a stone large enough that it can't lift it. Ipso facto, it isn't omnipotent.