Swearing

[Loveless]

Yes, people will come across swear words anywhere (TV, movies, Internet, etc) but the thing is that we don't want this forum to be part of that source. We'd like to be known, at least I think, as a friendly site that people of all ages can come and be somewhat "safe". If that makes sense?

You may not be offended by a post or song or whatever it may be that is filled with swearing. I for one, dislike it and it is generally better to cater towards those who do not want to see the swears than to those who do not mind. Yes, they can choose to ignore it but some believe it to be a concern and should be kept to a minimum. Swearing is never a 'nice' way to express feelings.

And if you are thinking about taking responsibility, perhaps you should then think of others who do not exactly take it as a way to express yourself. It has been established in this forum as a rule to keep swearing to a minimum. Which means once or twice is looked over but excessiveness is taken into account.

[Hessah]

The main idea of how swearing is a bad influence on kids is a thing I agree with. But some things I still don't agree with. It's that if I swear here, I know this is not good for the 'under 10-ish' I don't really understand how it will effect them. Why do I say this? Because from somewhere they will come across swearing/bad words sooner or later I can guarantee that it's inevitable.

you KNOW its not good for them.. but dont know how it'll effect them?

you should ask yourself, why do you KNOW it's not good for them?

I think how it effects a kid has been repeated over and over again in this thread... maybe u should go back and read the entire thread again...

There are lotsa things that kids may expose to "sooner or later" but it doesnt mean we SHOULD expose it to them SOONER...

Why are there R rated movies? They're gonna watch it when they're 18+ anyway.. why not let them watch it now?

What about drinking? They could be an alcoholic later anyway.. why make it illegal for a youngster to drink?

I think you'd be interested in some parenting guide on what influences kids... how bad influence could effect a kid's live in future...

and this forum ISNT ONLY banning swearing JUST because there's kids here.

It's overall offensive and, to be honest... degrading.

[Dynamics]

The main idea of how swearing is a bad influence on kids is a thing I agree with. But some things I still don't agree with. It's that if I swear here, I know this is not good for the 'under 10-ish' I don't really understand how it will effect them. Why do I say this? Because from somewhere they will come across swearing/bad words sooner or later I can guarantee that it's inevitable.
Sure I sometimes swear but that doesn't mean that swearing is always bad. It can express feelings emotions etc. But it doesn't mean that I'm not taking in responsibility.
As for the repeating of swear words, I don't know really pissed off that time that's why I posted on the All the Rage board but I don't know why it's fustrating to see a word repeated several times. If I was another person viewing the thread it wouldn't be such a big deal since the post does not affect me, distract me or harm me in any way, and I can choose to not view it. But if I had a person shouting several times for me to do something then that would be fustrating because I'm being annoyed, my ears will be hurting, the message is being targeted at me, I can't concentrate on what I'm doing etc..

Swearing inevitably being integrated into someone's vocabulary does not justify it. It's never a good practice for a society to demonstrate that excessive swearing is acceptable.

FiestaFan's an online society, and while things operated online may have less effect on people than the things that operate in the real world, it doesn't mean its' effect is meaningless.

I wrote earlier that I think, fully in my opinion, the biggest problem with excessive swearing online is that it is degenerative to someone's verbal skills. Another problem is that it gives people a bad impression of you. If someone is excessively swearing on the forums, they're likely not to be seen as others as nice people. This kind of effect is something people take to the internet from the real world. It's just something engraved in people's moral consciousness. A taboo word is taboo everywhere for most people, even in the freedom of the internet.

So many other people have made their points about excessive swearing and its' adverse effects, that I think your views need a little evaluation (in terms of understanding at least, not change). I think you should take a step back to read things over carefully.

Don't get offended, it's just different view points I suppose. I can see where you came from with your thinking, and I definitely think it's important that you understand FiestaFan's different views before you can respect them. It's a good thing for everyone you've brought this topic up.

[moparisthebest]

Expose them to drinking?
Or R-Rated movies?
Please take in that they are very different than swearing.
Expose them to drinking early can cause health problems, I think we all know that.
R-Rated movies we don't want the young to see any sexual/violence.

But why do I say that it's not so bad when they see it now? Because swearing isn't always 'bad'. I'm not saying it's good; I'm saying that there is no harm in swearing if it's not used for offense.
'They're going to watch it when they're 18+' - let them if they want to. It's not like they're going to start turning violent. Push them to not watch any 18+ movies? That is also fine, just be careful not to push them too much or they might get stressed which leads to violence anyway.
'Be an alcoholic' - How are you sure they are 100% going to become alcoholic? It's not like everybody is alcoholic, but swearing is absolutely a common act. Alcoholic is 'bad' in every way and surely the kids can receive teaching of it's effects and accidents that have occured between alcoholic people.
Why isn't swearing always as bad as it is?
Have you ever sworn once? If so when? Why did you swear? Does that mean that you're becoming lazy/violent/disobedient? I highly doubt that.
You say the 'F' word. Does that mean you're a failure in life?
You say it when you're sad/angry or when you're shocked. Does that mean you should wash your mouth? That's what I mean by 'not as bad' as you may say something but it doesn't necessarily mean you think bad.
Why does swearing mean that it's 100% offensive?

I say "oh s---" does that mean I'm offending people? Am I targeting anyone by saying this? Nope, this is just a mere sign of surprise.

As for swearing excessively, I thought this was okay in the All the Rage board. I thought that board was just for people to release their anger and people wouldn't mind, but would if I said it on another different discussion. And so I was mistaken then.

[Hessah]

Maybe from your experience, swearing is normal, and fine, and its not bad..

But from where I grew up, swearing is bad, swearing is only for rude people, swearing is offensive language...

i cringe when people swear... I for one cannot bring myself to say any swear word.. no matter how frustrated i am... i cant say i never swore... that's because the time that i did swore, i was a kid who didnt even know wat "swearing" is and copied my friend.. and got told off when i used the word at home..

i never swore ever again

you make swearing sound like a normal every day word.. well i can tell you its NOT...

you cant say it on TV, and all that with swearing is censored on radio... have you ever wondered why they do that? Hey it might not be hurting people, it may not be offending anyone... but you're still not allow to say it...

I dont know how to describe to you that swearing is bad...

rude word.. is a rude word... people use it in a rude way... no matter how u put it in a sentence it's still rude...

you come across sounding rude...

you're not telling someone off but by putting a swear word in a sentence it makes it rude...

i dunno wat else to say...........................

[Dynamics]

Expose them to drinking?
Or R-Rated movies?
Please take in that they are very different than swearing.
Expose them to drinking early can cause health problems, I think we all know that.
R-Rated movies we don't want the young to see any sexual/violence.

But why do I say that it's not so bad when they see it now? Because swearing isn't always 'bad'. I'm not saying it's good; I'm saying that there is no harm in swearing if it's not used for offense.
'They're going to watch it when they're 18+' - let them if they want to. It's not like they're going to start turning violent. Push them to not watch any 18+ movies? That is also fine, just be careful not to push them too much or they might get stressed which leads to violence anyway.
'Be an alcoholic' - How are you sure they are 100% going to become alcoholic? It's not like everybody is alcoholic, but swearing is absolutely a common act. Alcoholic is 'bad' in every way and surely the kids can receive teaching of it's effects and accidents that have occured between alcoholic people.
Why isn't swearing always as bad as it is?
Have you ever sworn once? If so when? Why did you swear? Does that mean that you're becoming lazy/violent/disobedient? I highly doubt that.
You say the 'F' word. Does that mean you're a failure in life?
You say it when you're sad/angry or when you're shocked. Does that mean you should wash your mouth? That's what I mean by 'not as bad' as you may say something but it doesn't necessarily mean you think bad.
Why does swearing mean that it's 100% offensive?

I say "oh s---" does that mean I'm offending people? Am I targeting anyone by saying this? Nope, this is just a mere sign of surprise.

As for swearing excessively, I thought this was okay in the All the Rage board. I thought that board was just for people to release their anger and people wouldn't mind, but would if I said it on another different discussion. And so I was mistaken then.

You seem to be repeating your arguments over and over again. Not everyone said profanity was 100% offensive. But it does clearly have an extensive list of adverse implications in its' implementation in speech and writing. These are not written in stone and they will vary upon the situation.

I say "oh s---" does that mean I'm offending people? Am I targeting anyone by saying this? Nope, this is just a mere sign of surprise.

Yes you're right about that. But in any large society it's easier to censor swearing, alcohol, offensive TV and other potentially harmful things largely on the whole, than to attempt to filter swearing based on each and every unique context. Moderators on this forum do not have the kind of time to read through each individual post and make fair and well weighted judgements. In larger society, many laws can seem inconvenient and impractical at times, but even so, a government will prefer to apply its' law consistently so the system doesn't come crashing down. Believe me, leaving cracks in any system will lead to a collapse of order quicker than you know. FiestaFan aims to prevent excessive profanity as much as possible. If profanity in a 'decent' context were used too excessively, than FiestaFan must be consistent with its' ruling against excessive swearing. It prevents uproar from the side of people who excessively swear inappropriately asking "why is he allowed to do it, what's the difference." It is seriously time consuming to constantly have to deal with every individual with the same question over and over (stickies do naught). It's easier and serves a larger majority to consistently rule against excessive swearing.

It seems to me you've only been arguing the same points over and over again. You don't construct your argument further from people's thoughts and views, or even re-evaluate your argument the slightest. You hardly argue or discuss any of the fine points made by the people posting here. I admire the determination and persistence, but you gotta realise how stubborn and close minded you're being in this discussion.

Perhaps you think your view is an absolute and universal truth, and that's why you haven't been moved in the slightest by people's posts here. If that is the case, than there really is nothing that can be done. Personally I think that arguing with such a stubborn attitude is unconstructive and self defeating.

[lamchopz]

I met an 11 y.o. kid in the game. It surprised me that a user that young was already exposed to the game.

So yes, I'm all for censoring even though it's a bit overzealous. Certainly, the kids will see the indecent language elsewhere but the point is Outspark does not want parents to stop kids from playing the game (if I were a parent, I'd ban my young kid/s from playing games that are tainted by swear words. Seriously).

I understand your frustration but think of the children and plus, I don't see a problem reading the asterisks. If you used symbols to replace those, asterisks are just the same.

Please enjoy your time in Fiesta. I know you have.

Relax.

Goodnight

EDIT: I'm just 21 years old btw, in case you think I'm an oldie being overprotective.

[moparisthebest]

You seem to be repeating your arguments over and over again. Not everyone said profanity was 100% offensive. But it does clearly have an extensive list of adverse implications in its' implementation in speech and writing. These are not written in stone and they will vary upon the situation.

Yes you're right about that. But in any large society it's easier to censor swearing, alcohol, offensive TV and other potentially harmful things largely on the whole, than to attempt to filter swearing based on each and every unique context. Moderators on this forum do not have the kind of time to read through each individual post and make fair and well weighted judgements. In larger society, many laws can seem inconvenient and impractical at times, but even so, a government will prefer to apply its' law consistently so the system doesn't come crashing down. Believe me, leaving cracks in any system will lead to a collapse of order quicker than you know. FiestaFan aims to prevent excessive profanity as much as possible. If profanity in a 'decent' context were used too excessively, than FiestaFan must be consistent with its' ruling against excessive swearing. It prevents uproar from the side of people who excessively swear inappropriately asking "why is he allowed to do it, what's the difference." It is seriously time consuming to constantly have to deal with every individual with the same question over and over (stickies do naught). It's easier and serves a larger majority to consistently rule against excessive swearing.

It seems to me you've only been arguing the same points over and over again. You don't construct your argument further from people's thoughts and views, or even re-evaluate your argument the slightest. You hardly argue or discuss any of the fine points made by the people posting here. I admire the determination and persistence, but you gotta realise how stubborn and close minded you're being in this discussion.

Perhaps you think your view is an absolute and universal truth, and that's why you haven't been moved in the slightest by people's posts here. If that is the case, than there really is nothing that can be done. Personally I think that arguing with such a stubborn attitude is unconstructive and self defeating.

I think you are a bit mistaken here. I've read the posts here and I try to answer them with detail. Although I don't answer every post at once, I try to give some reply. It is very time consuming if I gave replies to every post here. If you think I'm explaining the same point over and over again, that may be true but I try to explain my opinions. I'm not into law and debating so I'm not an expert at providing a well thought out and convincing explanation.
But saying that I think my view is an absolute and universal truth is something I don't appreciate. I don't think my views are all correct and I take in people's opinions. There is no right or wrong; it's just the way people see things.

You were talking of linguistics? Excessive swearing in my opinion does not affect your verbal/literature skills or the ability for good reasoning. Swear words don't contribute to a lack of verbal skills. Swear words in the end are just words that come out of people's mouth. Kids can swear all they like, but it doesn't mean that they can't do well in literature and explain with thoughtful ideas. There are many poets, authors, lawyers etc that definitely have succeed in language skills, but do you think they've never sworn in their life?
As for keeping control of the actions of the community you're absolutely right but weren't we here discussing the effects of swearing?

[Dynamics]

But saying that I think my view is an absolute and universal truth is something I don't appreciate. I don't think my views are all correct and I take in people's opinions. There is no right or wrong; it's just the way people see things.

Firstly I said perhaps you considered your feelings a universal truth. I was not completely sure. Of course my wording was not great with that one. Hoping that's cleared up. Sorry to have offended you. But I think what you wrote was the point I was trying to get across. I think people have adequately answered your question about the effects of excessive swearing, and it's completely up to you whether or not you want to accept any part of them or continue believing excessive swearing has no real effect.

I also did not say linguistic skills are directly affected by excessive swearing, but there is definitely a correlation between excessive swearing and degenerated linguistic skills. A person is more likely (not definitely) to demonstrate a deterioration in their linguistic skills. If a person excessively uses profanity to express themselves it is likely that they will not try expanding their vocabularies to express themselves more concisely.

My point about controlling the actions of the community were relevant to you understanding why the rules are imposed as they are on FiestaFan. You wanted to know the real affect swearing may have on people, and I had assumed this was because you wanted to understand why the rule was adopted on FiestaFan in the first place. I said earlier it's really important for anyone to understand a rule to be content with following it. If my assumption was wrong, then by all means ignore it.

My contention remains the same however, and if you really still believe swearing has no effect on kids, than I can't change that. I personally think excessive swearing does have an effect, even if that effect is small. I think I will leave things up to you now. This was a great discussion on the ethics of profanity.