Mage rant.

[FabledWaltz]

No, I am not ranting about some intellectually deficient Mage who ruined a Kingdom Quest I was in but instead, I am ranting about the class itself (as well as Outspark). I mean, after all this time, there really is no excuse for it.

Cool downs
Why is it, that quite a few of our spells have ridiculously lengthy cool down times? I.e. Purge, Dispel, Mind Drain, all our basic spells, etc. There is no reason why I should wait several minutes just to use a spell that barely has any use outside of PvP (Mind Drain). Dispel? It is the exact same thing as Cure but it "cures" a different type of "disease". I'll talk about Purge in a different part of my rant since it fits there better than here. Our basic spells all have cool down times equal to our more advance spells. Why is that?

I mean, you can't even use Magic Missile beyond the first level and the same goes for Fire Bolt (more or less). Why should we get stuck with the first level of our spells while everyone else can use their skills and spells at any level and not worry about it? The cool down on all the basic spells should be reduced to something below ten seconds. Especially for Magic Missile since that is basically our "auto-attack" in the game.

Damage
Out of all the classes, we're practically the weakest (next to Clerics). I would say we're slightly above Archers but since I rarely ever get partied with them I can not say for sure. However, there is no reason why ANY class should be able to out damage us. I say this because, the only purpose a Mage serves in any game is to dish out damage. If everyone else can out damage us than what purpose do we serve? That's right, we don't.

I cringe when ever I see a Fighter several levels below me just chopping down monsters like there was nothing to it while I have to sit there and smash my hotkeys until my fingers bleed just to kill one monster. By the time I kill one monster, the Fighter has already killed ten. (Before you comment on that, that is merely an exaggeration.)

Usefulness of Spells (or lack thereof)
There is, a multitude of spells that are useless. One spell that every (or nearly every) Mage can agree on that is useless, is Life Tap. Why in the bloody hell would we use something that kills us? It sucks away way too much health and does not give even close enough SP back to make it even remotely useful at any level. The only real purpose it serves is to piss off Clerics or just to commit suicide.

Mind Drain. Outside of PvP it serves almost no purpose and inside of PvP it serves almost no purpose. More often than not, you'll have to chase down the player you just used Mind Drain UNLESS, of course, you are in a narrow corridor of some sort. And basically, without empowering it, you've got maybe a 70% chance to cast a basic spell without it wearing off and having the player/monster tear you to shreds. Purge. Completely useless unless the person is weak and only has one buff/scroll on themselves and you're just an ass who torments weaker players for fun.

Frost Nova and Inferno. While not exactly "useless" they're not exactly the most helpful or beneficial spells in our repertoire either. Why? Because a Mage can not tank (not without some serious cash shop items) and we certainly can not kite mobs with them either (this is a reference to the Archer's AoE ability). And more often than not, you won't need to cast both if there is another Mage in the party.

Ice Bolt or Ice Blast. They're both on a "global cool down" which means when you use one, you basically use the other. Minus the damage, slowing effect, etc. And the slowing effect itself is quite useless since you have to get pretty close to a monster anyways to kill it. Not to mention the effect is not always a guarantee. Honestly, those spells are just there for extra damage but you have to choose which one you would rather cast. Ice Bolt has a quicker "casting animation" but less damage where as Ice Blast has a longer "casting animation" but slightly more damage. This brings us to the next part of my rant.

Casting Animations
One reason (or more like theory) that Fighters are able to out damage a Mage is because of the casting animations of the spells as well as the distance a spell needs to travel in order to hit the target. From what I can tell, Fighters have no "casting animations" except maybe a twist here or a turn there which takes less than a second and their attacks have no distance to travel. I understand that Mages are supposed to have "flashy" spells that make people go "Ooo" and "Aaah" but I would rather have the most basic looking spell in the world that casts a lot faster than the best looking spell in the world that casts a whole hell of a lot slower.

Also, why in the bloody hell does Dispel make me look like some damn fairy? I'm a Mage for Pete's sake! Not a prancing fairy who goes around sprinkling fairy dust on people. Same for Purge. I'm not an Angel of light so why do I get wings when doing this? Makes no sense at all. I liked the old animation of Life Tap where as this new crotch thrust just embarrasses me.

Range
Some of you may or may not agree with me on this (Mages, I mean). I feel that the range of our spells is far too short. I'm not saying we should be able to pick off monsters from halfway across the world (that would be nice though) but a reasonable distance away from them is required. Otherwise we're nothing more than a short ranged Fighter minus the power and defensive capabilities. This would go perfect with Ice Blast (or Ice Bolt) always having a chance of slowing our enemies down. This way, we can attack from a safe distance without the fear of being viciously mauled by something ten times our size.

Kiting
Why is it, that only two of our spells allow us to kite? Everyone else can pretty much cast a spell or use a skill while running where as we get Lightning Blast and Lightning Bolt and then we're forced to stand there and get slapped around like a rag doll. Admittedly, kiting is not very effective for anyone but Archers because they can AoE while they run so taking down multiple mobs is fairly for them. I say this because if you kite, there is a GOOD chance you're going to run into a lot more monsters. As a Mage, that means you're boned. Don't just make two of our spells a "cast-on-the-run", make them all that way.

Stones
There is, no reason, why Mages should have so few stones. The other three classes that are at or below my level (to an extent), easily have way more HP and SP stones than me but the ones who need them the most ARE Mages. I've got 67 HP stones and 103 SP stones at level 71. The others? As far as I know, they've got 200+ in each. I do not care how expensive they are but I do care that I run out incredibly quickly while trying to solo a quest. I can not rely on potions because the materials to make them are hard to come by and buying them is impossible since everything on my server is highly overpriced.

This is an issue that has been around for a very long time (if not from the beginning) and if there is one thing I would like to see fixed the soonest, it would be our stones. We should have the most of each since we're in need of the most of each. And no, having a lot more stones does not make us overpowered by any means. It simply means we have a slightly higher chance of lasting a bit longer.

Ending Comments
As of right now, this is all I can think of that I feel is wrong with the Mage class. I would be glad to provide ways to improve our class if it were not for the fact that it would take me just as long (if not longer) to write the improvements as it did the flaws of our class. I am, thanks to Outspark, forced to play a Cleric until Mages are fixed because I can only take but so much abuse for so long. I can not afford to spend thousands of dollars on the cash shop either and I would not even if I could because I do not feel Outspark is deserving of even a cent.

You can make every excuse in the book to explain why Mages are underpowered but to me? They'll always be excuses. Quite frankly, I am done with excuses. I want results and I am tired of waiting for them. I think it is time Outspark get off their asses and actually fixed us for a change.

Edit: Holy crap! I didn't realize how long this was! Sorry people. xD

[Ralath]

Oh no! The Mages aren't a perfect class...

Cool downs
There is no reason why I should wait several minutes just to use a spell that barely has any use outside of PvP (Mind Drain).

I really don't understand this argument. Why do you need to use Mind Drain so often anyway if it's only useful for PVP? The reason why it has a longer cooltime is so that it doesn't unbalance PVP... >.> I can't even imagine how I'm supposed to PvP at all if a Mage is Mind Draining me every 10 seconds.....

Damage
Out of all the classes, we're practically the weakest (next to Clerics). I would say we're slightly above Archers but since I rarely ever get partied with them I can not say for sure.

False. Actually depends on the level. I started playing out as an archer. After the cap raise (and even before it), I had the hardest time finding parties because I was an archer who didn't have Nature's Mist (so the mages out-damaged me) and the mages had Frost Nova anyway, which was preferable to Nature's Mist. At least Outspark changed the cooldown time to Nature's Mist and Multishot so that it's actually useful. But still, until Archers get their 2nd AoE debuff (at level 75), it's hard to see Archers outdamaging Mages.......

Usefulness of Spells (or lack thereof)
Frost Nova and Inferno. While not exactly "useless" they're not exactly the most helpful or beneficial spells in our repertoire either. Why? Because a Mage can not tank (not without some serious cash shop items) and we certainly can not kite mobs with them either (this is a reference to the Archer's AoE ability). And more often than not, you won't need to cast both if there is another Mage in the party.

That's the whole point of partying with other people. =.= And Frost Nova and Inferno do a lot more damage than Nature's Mist...

Kiting
Why is it, that only two of our spells allow us to kite? Everyone else can pretty much cast a spell or use a skill while running where as we get Lightning Blast and Lightning Bolt and then we're forced to stand there and get slapped around like a rag doll. Admittedly, kiting is not very effective for anyone but Archers because they can AoE while they run so taking down multiple mobs is fairly for them. I say this because if you kite, there is a GOOD chance you're going to run into a lot more monsters. As a Mage, that means you're boned. Don't just make two of our spells a "cast-on-the-run", make them all that way.

If you wanted to kite, should have been an archer. I don't see the other classes complaining about not being able to kite. Hell, clerics can't even pull monsters from afar... =.=



No, the Mage class is not perfect. But in fact, probably none of the classes are. Archers have been complaining about their missing skills for as long as I can remember. Clerics too. There is a REASON why the Mage can't do all those things or has certain limits to certain things. Other classes do too.

[Hessah]

Cooldown - You should play a fighter.. (or ask the fighters)... and you'll realise your CD is not really all that rediculous... (they get devestate and only 1 AOE that only does a one off dmg with 4 mins cool down!)

Dmg - we do do most dmg.. or suppose to... the fighter that u saw is probably a full STR fighter with an axe... fair enough.. they can deal MASSIVE dmg too.. but only to one mob at a time.. our AOE does great dmg. Take 10 sec to kill 5 mobs is better than taking 5 sec to kill 1 mob right?

Casting Animation - I don't think mage gets any more casting animation than any other class. Our spells tend to have a longer cast time though. But I don't think it has anything to do with the animation. Fighters most useful skill is Devestate and they had to swing their axe around their head before they stun anything too.

Range - After playing a cleric, I'm totally happy with mage's range.

Kiting - If we can kite better than an archer then there'll be nothing left for archers. We already have two better AOEs which archer's mist cannot compare to.

Stones - Yeah I don't understand why we only get 1/3 of cleric's stones.. Archers are not much better off either though.

Ending Comment - Please correct me if I am wrong, but I'm under the impression that you have not played any other class except for a mage. There's actually a lot of things a mage class CAN do but other class cant. Ironically, we pull aggro better than any fighter LOL.

[FabledWaltz]

Oh no! The Mages aren't a perfect class...


:rolleyes:

That sarcasm is both idiotic and unnecessary. I did not complain about them not being perfect but more about being so shafted they're next to impossible to play.

I really don't understand this argument. Why do you need to use Mind Drain so often anyway if it's only useful for PVP? The reason why it has a longer cooltime is so that it doesn't unbalance PVP... >.> I can't even imagine how I'm supposed to PvP at all if a Mage is Mind Draining me every 10 seconds.....

Who said about about reducing the cool down of Mind Drain to 10 seconds? As far as I know, it is at about two minutes, maybe three (maintenance going on so I can't check). It is only useful for PvP BECAUSE I can not use it often. It would be nice to be able to use it outside of PvP as well as inside.

False. Actually depends on the level. I started playing out as an archer. After the cap raise (and even before it), I had the hardest time finding parties because I was an archer who didn't have Nature's Mist (so the mages out-damaged me) and the mages had Frost Nova anyway, which was preferable to Nature's Mist. At least Outspark changed the cooldown time to Nature's Mist and Multishot so that it's actually useful. But still, until Archers get their 2nd AoE debuff (at level 75), it's hard to see Archers outdamaging Mages.......

Like I said, I was not sure whether an Archer can out damage a Mage or not. And that may just be you. I have seen Archers who have out damaged me and I am sure I can out damage a few Archers myself. But I don't really care about Archers, the biggest problem is any class out damaging the Mage.

That's the whole point of partying with other people. =.= And Frost Nova and Inferno do a lot more damage than Nature's Mist...

I can rarely find a party for anything I want to do. And more often than not, the party is already full. Yes, of course they do but the cool down on Inferno is twice as long as the cool down on Frost Nova even with an empowerment and you have to sit there and cast it. Meaning, it is close to being useless unless you're capable of tanking mobs easily. Of course, the only way to do this is to buy a lot of cash shop items. Something I am incapable of doing.

If you wanted to kite, should have been an archer. I don't see the other classes complaining about not being able to kite. Hell, clerics can't even pull monsters from afar... =.=

Why would I play an Archer? The only class I enjoy playing is the Mage. Not to mention, it is the only class I am good at. I mean, I'm fairly decent at being a Cleric but that just isn't my thing. Um... Clerics are not supposed to. Their job is to heal and support the group. And they don't have anything to complain about except their lack of damage but if you allowed them to deal more damage they would be just as overpowered as Fighters are now. And who cares about the other classes? I don't because I don't play them. I only care about improving the class that I do play.

No, the Mage class is not perfect. But in fact, probably none of the classes are. Archers have been complaining about their missing skills for as long as I can remember. Clerics too. There is a REASON why the Mage can't do all those things or has certain limits to certain things. Other classes do too.

No class is perfect and that is fine by me. But the Mage is the most underpowered class in just about every game I have ever played. Yeah, there is a reason and it's called people whine when they get beat so we get beat by the nerf stick until we're useless. And again, I am not here to advocate other classes because I do not play those classes. If others have problems with those classes than they can speak for them but I will not. Again, realize that this is the "Mage rant" not the "Cleric rant" or "Fighter rant" or "Archer rant".

[Ivramire]

Purely from a PvP point of view, I'd think the balance would go Fighter>Mage (by a narrow margin depending on eqs and CS)>Archer>Clerics (who can't kill anything.) You may interchange Cleric and Archer depending on whether you want survivabilty or lethality.


For the class relevant to this thread, Mages are surprisingly balanced. This of course disregards the use of CS which lets Mages tank and Fighters outdamage Archers+Mages. Reducing the cooldown of the skills would frankly let them dominate anyone if used in conjunction with run-castability. Someone gets too close, chain-fear, blast, run while spamming run-castables, cooldown fear, rinse and repeat. Noone, not even Archers would have a chance. Just changing those two would be .__.


Sure they're not perfect, cooldowns should be lowered a bit on some spells, but they're (imo) still one of the better balanced. A lot of the use of Mages in PvP depends on the skill of the player, maybe more than other classes due to the different skills and know-how of how to use them.


Mages are fine, maybe even too good in regard to Archers in PvE (until Archers get the 3rd AoE) all they need is a tank and they deal great damage to lots of mobs as long as they are contained.


EDIT:

Why would I play an Archer? The only class I enjoy playing is the Mage. Not to mention, it is the only class I am good at. I mean, I'm fairly decent at being a Cleric but that just isn't my thing. Um... Clerics are not supposed to. Their job is to heal and support the group. And they don't have anything to complain about except their lack of damage but if you allowed them to deal more damage they would be just as overpowered as Fighters are now. And who cares about the other classes? I don't because I don't play them. I only care about improving the class that I do play.

This is quite frankly, very telling. Changing anything in one class has ramifications for everyone else. You must take into consideration what changing so many things will do, not only in PvP, but in PvE. It just seems like you're not seeing that and only want to improve the class you do play and disregard the impact on everyone else =/

[Hessah]

You MUST look at other classes before you can single out one class and say they should be "improved".

It's called class balance.

If you "improved" everything that you suggested, bascially you're asking for a mage to be able to do everything else that a fighter + archer can do. Then the entire fiesta population would have 2 clerics per 3 mage.

EDIT: ^ lvra beat me XD

[FabledWaltz]

Cooldown - You should play a fighter.. (or ask the fighters)... and you'll realise your CD is not really all that rediculous... (they get devestate and only 1 AOE that only does a one off dmg with 4 mins cool down!)

I do not want to play something I hate. I am content with being a Mage. I am not content with the way Mages are treated. If they had any more AoE spells they would be beyond overpowered and there would be no point in playing any other class. Devastate... ugh. It stuns a group of mobs, doesn't it? I don't care what their cool downs are, they certainly are not long enough when they can easily spam their skills over and over again.

Dmg - we do do most dmg.. or suppose to... the fighter that u saw is probably a full STR fighter with an axe... fair enough.. they can deal MASSIVE dmg too.. but only to one mob at a time.. our AOE does great dmg. Take 10 sec to kill 5 mobs is better than taking 5 sec to kill 1 mob right?

Mages ARE supposed to do the most damage. As I said before, we serve no purpose other than to dish out as much damage as possible. Actually, I have seen plenty of Fighters that are not pure STR that can chop me and monsters down with absolutely no effort what so ever. Yeah... AoE spells... everyone brings that up but again, they're absolutely useless in PvP and close to being useless in PvE situations that involve just you and not an entire party.

Casting Animation - I don't think mage gets any more casting animation than any other class. Our spells tend to have a longer cast time though. But I don't think it has anything to do with the animation. Fighters most useful skill is Devestate and they had to swing their axe around their head before they stun anything too.

It takes them roughly a second or less to use their skills where as Magic Blast, Fire Blast, Ice Blast, Lightning Blast, etc. have a second or more plus the amount of time it takes for the spell to actually get there. And by the way, that is not include the actual casting time, just the casting animation itself.

Range - After playing a cleric, I'm totally happy with mage's range.

Clerics are not supposed to be ranged nor are Fighters. But this doesn't mean we should get shafted just because another class doesn't have range.

Kiting - If we can kite better than an archer then there'll be nothing left for archers. We already have two better AOEs which archer's mist cannot compare to.

Archers can easily solo better than Mages. They can run around and constantly cast Nature's Mist without needing to stop where as we have to sit there and cast all our spells with the exception of Lightning Bolt and Lightning Blast. Archers would not get left out because we would be given the ability to kite. It simply means they're no longer the only ones who can do it.

Stones - Yeah I don't understand why we only get 1/3 of cleric's stones.. Archers are not much better off either though.

I only play Mages. I could not care less about the amount of stones an Archer has. And it's more like 1/4 than 1/3 when it comes to the amount of stones a Cleric or a Fighter has.

Ending Comment - Please correct me if I am wrong, but I'm under the impression that you have not played any other class except for a mage. There's actually a lot of things a mage class CAN do but other class cant. Ironically, we pull aggro better than any fighter LOL.

Fine, I'll correct you. You're wrong. I have not gotten far enough in each class to point out the pros and cons in every class but again, I play a Mage and nothing else. What is wrong with them is irrelevant to what I have ranted about. Um... not really and that is a good thing. The last thing I want to do is pull aggro off of a Fighter who is tanking. The only time it happens is when the Fighter just sucks at tanking. And what exactly can the other classes not do that we can do? I mean, besides Purge and Dispel. The former being useless and the latter not being used quite that often.

To point out an obvious flaw in your arguments, I do not need to advocate any other class since there are PLENTY others who will do that in my stead. Obviously if Outspark were to just listen to me, Mages would be the most powerful and every other class would suffer. Which, I would not mind but everyone else would. Again, I do not care because I am not everyone else but I understand it would have a counterproductive effect (more or less).

Also, do not bring cash shop items into this. I can not afford them nor can a lot of others but that does not mean we should suffer because of it. If anything, Outspark should get rid of them.

[Hraesvelg]

I still want my "I Win" button, too.

[Ivramire]

I do not want to play something I hate. I am content with being a Mage. I am not content with the way Mages are treated. If they had any more AoE spells they would be beyond overpowered and there would be no point in playing any other class. Devastate... ugh. It stuns a group of mobs, doesn't it? I don't care what their cool downs are, they certainly are not long enough when they can easily spam their skills over and over again.

I don't see people complaining when Devastate makes things a million times easier when grinding. I do believe the CD needs to be nerfed for PvP, but that doesn't mean that Mages need to become overpowered.

Mages ARE supposed to do the most damage. As I said before, we serve no purpose other than to dish out as much damage as possible. Actually, I have seen plenty of Fighters that are not pure STR that can chop me and monsters down with absolutely no effort what so ever. Yeah... AoE spells... everyone brings that up but again, they're absolutely useless in PvP and close to being useless in PvE situations that involve just you and not an entire party.

Fiesta is a party-based game...if you want a class that can do massive damage + take hordes of mobs simultaneously while needing no other class, you might need to lower your expectations.

Clerics are not supposed to be ranged nor are Fighters. But this doesn't mean we should get shafted just because another class doesn't have range.

That depends on your view on whether or not Mages are ''shafted'' or not. What exactly is wrong with the Mage's range? If they managed to kill everything from a mile away, they'd never get hit, which would make them OP? It shouldn't even come close to a Archer's anyway.

Archers can easily solo better than Mages. They can run around and constantly cast Nature's Mist without needing to stop where as we have to sit there and cast all our spells with the exception of Lightning Bolt and Lightning Blast. Archers would not get left out because we would be given the ability to kite. It simply means they're no longer the only ones who can do it.

Archer's pay for kiting with the raw power and damage that Mages can dish out. Maybe the reason the Archer is soloing, is because they're less likely to get into parties due to the Mage's superior firepower in AoE?

I only play Mages. I could not care less about the amount of stones an Archer has. And it's more like 1/4 than 1/3 when it comes to the amount of stones a Cleric or a Fighter has.

Archer's and Mage's stones are roughly similar (last time I checked) Not entirely sure about the reasoning why OS fiddled with the stone capacity, but it's probably a balancer to dictate grind-time? -shrug-

Fine, I'll correct you. You're wrong. I have not gotten far enough in each class to point out the pros and cons in every class but again, I play a Mage and nothing else. What is wrong with them is irrelevant to what I have ranted about. Um... not really and that is a good thing. The last thing I want to do is pull aggro off of a Fighter who is tanking. The only time it happens is when the Fighter just sucks at tanking. And what exactly can the other classes not do that we can do? I mean, besides Purge and Dispel. The former being useless and the latter not being used quite that often.

I don't see how that's possible in a thread that seeks to 'correct' some of the Mage's shortcomings. Anyway, think about the reason that aggro was pulled off the Fighter. That's because Mage's damage is really high...pre-buffing and refining of the Taunt skills, Mages were assured a quick death if they didn't hold back. What can Mages do that other classes can't? Lots of PvP-specific skills that when used right utterly destroy opponents, even calculating in the cool-times. They also do the most damage with their AoEs that are supposed to be used in a party.

[Hessah]

You are asking for an all round class with EVERYTHING. You may as well say mage should be able to heal themselves. Yes you're gonna say "mage isn't suppose to heal". Likewise, mage isn't suppose to kite - that's archer's ability.

You don't play other class and say mage is underpower. You compare yourself to other classes, then say who cares wat skills they get. If you want to compare yourself to other classes, then you need to be able to see what Pros you have over them as well.

Mage is a party class, and because you're soloing, you're not getting the most out of being a mage. And that's where you're underpowered. It's not the class, it's the way you play.

Range - Mage's spells range between 12m - 13.5m. Archer's range from 10.5m - 13.5m. What more do you want? You DO have the max range given by any class in Fiesta.

Mages ARE supposed to do the most damage. As I said before, we serve no purpose other than to dish out as much damage as possible. Actually, I have seen plenty of Fighters that are not pure STR that can chop me and monsters down with absolutely no effort what so ever. Yeah... AoE spells... everyone brings that up but again, they're absolutely useless in PvP and close to being useless in PvE situations that involve just you and not an entire party.

Now, to not mess things up with PVP and PVE.

AOE Is used for PVE. I can mob down a room in abyss quicker than any fighter given that we've both got a cleric. (Not a lvl 70 abyss room btw.. a room with only 2 mobs fighter may win, but a room with 60 mobs a mage will kill faster.)

In PVP - I can fear fighters away before they touch me. Their amount of HP may not allow me to take them down, but it's not like we're helpless and have no skills to counter.