Deity Existence

**Hraesvelg** · 05-28-2009, 02:50 AM

So...why make up stuff that we can't know until we die? It seems like a pointless exercise in mental masturbation. And then to base your entire life around? To convince others that your way is correct? To make life and political decisions off what you think some being might want that you can't know?

**Vasu** · 05-28-2009, 08:04 AM

It's like you're living your entire life in fear actually. "This may be right, but we don't know until we die, so we better be good and limit ourselves our entire life just so that we don't go to this unprovable hell when we die."

Jikanu · 05-28-2009, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by Vasu

It's like you're living your entire life in fear actually. "This may be right, but we don't know until we die, so we better be good and limit ourselves our entire life just so that we don't go to this unprovable hell when we die."

Really? from what i've seen the 10 Commandments and such are just guildelines to a respectable life. Treat your elders well. Dont cheat on your spouse. Dont cheat with someone else's spouse. dont be promiscuous and get STD's. Dont kill. Dont steal. Dont hate.

And hrae, i believe in it because it all just... makes sense. It all just feels right. Most of the Church's teachings make full sense to me. i disagree with a few of the social things, but most of them make full sense to me.

**Hraesvelg** · 05-28-2009, 06:09 PM

Just because there might be a few good ideas doesn't mean any of the supernatural hokum is valid.

I've always been amused that Christians even refer to those commandments. The new covenant established in the New Testament freed the Christians from following the old laws. Otherwise, you'd be avoiding shellfish and polyester.

Jikanu · 05-28-2009, 06:14 PM

The Ten Commandments are SLIGHTLY different than the rest of the laws... i see what you mean though.

You're kinda contradicting yourself, though. you just said it's possible that a deity exists, and yet you criticize christians for believing in one :/

there IS some evidence that points to the possibility to a deity, just nothing that fully proves it.

As for the lack of full testability, it kinda goes along with one of your previous posts :/

Originally Posted by Hraesvelg

We're on a small mudball traveling around a backwater star using optical telescopes. Probing the far depths of the universe to a major degree of certainty is a bit out of our grasp.

Anyway, back to the hellhole that is school with me :/

**Hraesvelg** · 05-28-2009, 06:28 PM

I'm not criticizing anyone for saying that a deity might exist in some form. I'm criticizing anyone that says "There IS a deity and this is how he/she/it wants me/you/us to live/worship." Trust me, if any other sort of gnostic theist popped their head in, I'd wade into their particular belief system. It's absolutely preposterous.

**Vasu** · 06-16-2009, 12:17 PM

I've already told you that you can by all means use the Bible as a moral compass if you really want to. But you don't have to believe in a deity for that.

BUMP/EDIT: My bro told me something interesting about how no true free will exists, because humans and their reactions are just the sum of whatever influences them. Interesting, but I'm not sure how far I agree with it.

BUMP/EDIT 2:

Originally Posted by Jikanu

1. Yes, you are correct. I didnt have an answer, and still dont, simply because i dont know how God operates. That's not something any living being can really answer, so it's kinda an unfair question :/

As for malevolence, one could assume that a being at such a higher level as to be able to create all that exists would be interested in things much higher than we, and therefore not have need for greed, hate, etc.

Exactly. So you don't know he wants you to go to Church every Sunday, and wants to bless you. There is no indication that he wants us to do anything, and the Bible is completely baseless for assuming most of the things in there, since humans can't possibly understand what god wants from us

Originally Posted by Jikanu

And once again, to the sacrifice of Christ, perhaps there are supernatural rules that God has created for himself to follow. It doesnt limit his omnipotence and omnicience, because it would be more of a choice to limit his powers than anything else.

Yes, so then he has actively chosen the option that will lead to bloodshed. Malevolence?

Originally Posted by Jikanu

Also, i think i've come up with something; Perhaps the absolute truth lies partially in different religions. I mean, there ARE similarities between each different religion; i believe a Taoist friend of mine told me that they believe in a god's son being sacrificed; (i dont know the accuracy of this story as i havent researched it very deeply yet); Many Native American tribes believed in a Great Spirit, therefore suggesting monothesim. Perhaps there isnt one specific religion with all the answers, but instead each holds a valuble peice of the puzzle (excluding religions created on greed, and hate, such as the manson family, of course)

Perhaps it doesn't?

Originally Posted by Jikanu

2. It got circular because the arguments had no deffinite endpoint and would circle back to repeated topics. Also, you cant simplify both stances since we were debating details in them. it would go like this:

A. I hold Stance 1, 3, and 5
B. I hold stance 2, 4, and 6

A. X and Y disprove stance 2
B. But S and T maneuver around X and Y
A. But C and D Disprove X and Y
B. But stance 4 can reprove stance 2
A. But stance 4 is flawed because of such and such
B. Not if stance two is taken into account.
A. But stance two is flawed because of X and Y.

i couldnt really make a good model for the thread, but you get my basic point...

No, actually I don't. There's a fallacy in the middle of that since stance 2 and stance 4 are interdependent.