Weapons and block

[Lafieru]

Ummmmm. I really have to disagree.

End doesn't give you as much benefit because you're a mage/archer? Well, you know what? You're a mage/archer. Of course it wouldn't. If you think mages/archers should get block from end because it's more fair, then I think clerics should get double the crit bonus from spirit because it's fair. I mean, think about it - we only have half a DD's DPS, so our points in spirit are half as useful. But guess what - as cool as it'd be, that'd destroy the balance. My cleric HAS TO suck at DD because she's great at so many other things. And that's the point of having classes.

Call me unfair or mean if you want, but that's how it works, and I agree with it. ;x

[Blaaaaaaaah]

Your argument doesn't sway me at all. Block won't make a character more broken if you give them it, so your overall argument is nulled.

I just think it's silly that characters without shields don't fully benefit from endurance. A lot of archers and mages invest points into endurance to make themselves more hardy, yet the points are partially wasted because you won't benefit from the bonus block that endurance gives.

Then wouldn't that make shields pointless? The point of getting a shield is for the block rate. If everyone gets block rate from endurance, why get the shield for?

I kind of agree with Laffie. o:

[MagesRequiem]

Then wouldn't that make shields pointless? The point of getting a shield is for the block rate. If everyone gets block rate from endurance, why get the shield for?

I kind of agree with Laffie. o:

Because then you'd have twice as much block rate as a person without?

[Blaaaaaaaah]

Because then you'd have twice as much block rate as a person without?

Does shield give us enough block rate that will actually be twice as much? I mean, even with my shield now, I don't notice myself blocking that much. o.O

[MagesRequiem]

Does shield give us enough block rate that will actually be twice as much? I mean, even with my shield now, I don't notice myself blocking that much. o.O

That is because you phail. I will teach you in the ways of... not phailing. But for a price...

[Xhaos Incarnate]

I do agree with that, block should be on all weapons. Perhaps for non shields, they get a lowered amount per point of END? Shields should have a better block ability than a weapon because....duh, its a shield but it seems reasonable that blocking with any kind of weapon is possible.

[Blaaaaaaaah]

What's the point on getting endurance on other characters then? What I'm proposing will make the stats more versatile for all classes. Laffy's argument was self defeating. He argued that it was balanced that a cleric doesn't get double the critical rate from spirit. While that's all well and true, what's the relation with critical and block? His example isn't even on the same line of thought as mine. I'm asking if a stat would be more fair if it benefitted all classes equally. Endurance doesn't do this. Only shield users get block, and no one else. I could hardly call that balanced.

But a shield will allow us to enhance the use of that stat - this is why we get a shield! I really wouldn't get the point in getting a shield if it all classes get block rate. Extra defense and HP is already a significant amount - I notice that an archer with 10-15 endurance (forgot exact numbers) tank better than an archer with no endurance at all. Just having extra HP and defense is enough to be make a difference.

Now let's imagine that weapons for each class get a certain amount of block rate. Picture this: an archer that has a full endurance build. They will be blocking half of the hits with their END/block rate on weapon and evading the other half with their natural stat DEX. Their damage will still be great (of course, this will vary depending where they put their stat points to) as they have the skills for it. They will also crit a lot because of their stats on the weapon.

Then you have a full end cleric. They block half the hits with their END/block rate on weapon, and they will be further blocking the other half of the hits from the extra block rate of the shield compared to the archer's weapon as well as with their shield block rate skill. However, their damage will still suck. We don't have that many offense skills and our weapons doesn't have the extra crit rate.

If you compare the archer and cleric : archer seems to sound better because they can block AND do a sufficient amount of damage, whereas the cleric can only block properly.

Now let's imagine the same situation in the game right now. Full end archer = survive a bit better, evades, deals nice damage. Full end cleric = blocks and survive very well (more than the archer), deals only moderate damage. This will prevent a class from becoming too powerful in both defense AND damage.

And this is why only shield users - namely clerics and fighters - get to benefit from block rate. If archers and mages get block rate too - what will make clerics and fighters special? Archers and mages will get to block/survive almost just as well as a cleric and fighter and deal great damage while the clerics and fighters can't.

The point of having different classes is so that each class get to master a certain ability. We have weapons and skills to help master that ability. You can bring up a fighter/cleric that deals a lot of damage by following a certain build, but they will never match up an archer/mage who also does the same thing and uses a build that enhances their damage. This is the same vice versa. You can have a full END archer/mage, but their defense will never match up a full END cleric/fighter. Different classes for different abilities are needed to have the game in balance. If you make everything completely fair between all classes - then we're all going to end up to be the same and that's no fun at all.

[Dynamics]

Where are you getting these statistics with block and evasion =/. It's not going to tip over that much at all. An archer evading half the time and blocking half the time? I don't think so. I'm not trying to make every single little thing fair between every character. I would just like to see all the free stats to benefit every class the same (excluding strength and intel), because why shouldn't they? You're treating it as though if this were implemented, the entire game's balance would tip over. Would it honestly do that?

If archers and mages get block rate too - what will make clerics and fighters special? Archers and mages will get to block/survive almost just as well as a cleric and fighter and deal great damage while the clerics and fighters can't.

You're neglecting a lot of details here. In answer to the question. A fighter would have enormous amounts of HP and a bigger defense bonus from his equipments (archers get a higher evasion boost from their equipments, and a weaker defense gain). That is what would keep the fighter special. It's a far more capable tank, and the archer would never be able to match that. A cleric has a heal, and various support abilities for themselves and their party. That's what makes the cleric special. Whilst all the archer really has going for him is slightly improved survivability, and higher damage. He won't have the HP, defense or heal that the other two classes you brought up have. He isn't the same as either the cleric or fighter in most respects. Fighters, clerics and archers/mages are unique, and still capable in their respective fields of tanking, support and dealing damage, regardless of whether or not you give them block.

[Blaaaaaaaah]

The blocking/evading half the time thing was only an example. I couldn't be bothered to say "imagine the archers blocking 3 hits every 20 hits and evade another 4 hits every 20 hits..." etc. My main point of that would be the archer may be able to block/evade as much as a shield user can block.

Fighters, clerics and archers/mages are unique, and still capable in their respective fields of tanking, support and dealing damage, regardless of whether or not you give them block.

If it's not going to make that much of a difference, why implement it then? If you're talking about adding such little block rate that's not going to make much difference, I don't see the point in adding an element that won't make much difference to the game in its current state.

[Blaaaaaaaah]

Because every little imbalance in the game adds up.

I don't understand. D: