Deity Existence

[Hraesvelg]

I will admit that there is no evidence that disproves the existence of magical underpants gnomes and that the God of the Gaps argument is a very, very slippery slope that I don't think you want to go down.

[Jikanu]

im simply asking, how is your theory that nothingness just magically exploded any more plausible than that of divine extra dimensional being watching over us?

[Hraesvelg]

Olber's Paradox, redshift, discovery of cosmic background radiation, and more observational evidence point to a finite universe that is currently expanding and at one time was in a dense, isothermal state.

Emperical, observational, repeatable evidence that points to the Big Bang model of cosmology. This makes it infinitely more plausible than an invisible, unobservable, diety that plays an active role in the universe.

You'll note that I've never contended that there isn't ANY possibility that some extra-universal agent exists, merely that there isn't a shred of hard evidence for it.

[Jikanu]

Ah, but do you have any evidence to what may or may not have caused the big bang? that is where my point lies. I Believe in the Big Bang and in Evolution, but i believe God caused them, that God was the one molding everything.

Here's an article that i found on Google that seems to be someone lecturing on Hawking's theories on God.

http://www.leaderu.com/real/ri9501/bigbang2.html

[Vasu]

im simply asking, how is your theory that nothingness just magically exploded any more plausible than that of divine extra dimensional being watching over us?

I believe Hrae is an agnostic, therefore he claims ignorance on the issue due to lack of sufficient knowledge, rather than come up with an incomplete, flawed theory. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

Me, I share his view.


EDIT: But Jik, this is once again a proof-less assumption you are making by ascribing the Big Bang and Evolution to God, when there is no evidence either way.

I'll say it again, when there is no proof either way, the difference is that I seek knowledge, while you jump at god.

[Jikanu]

But what if both theories can coexist to make one beautiful one? isnt it at all possible that whatever Divine Being created us used the laws of physics, biology, everything to make us? Isnt it possible to believe that God created the Big Bang, and did it in such a perfect way that everything that came afterwards would be in just the right place? that earth would be exactly the correct distance from the sun, and so on and so forth?

[Hraesvelg]

I am an agnostic atheist. I am agnostic because I don't know, because there is no evidence. I'm an atheist because I do not believe in any form of theism.

There are agnostic theists (deists and the like) and gnostic theists (any group that claims to know the motives/desires of a deity).

I'm agnostic about dinner, because I don't know what I'm making, but I'll soon have evidence enough on that question.

Edit:

But what if both theories can coexist to make one beautiful one? isnt it at all possible that whatever Divine Being created us used the laws of physics, biology, everything to make us? Isnt it possible to believe that God created the Big Bang, and did it in such a perfect way that everything that came afterwards would be in just the right place? that earth would be exactly the correct distance from the sun, and so on and so forth?

That would be lovely. Wouldn't it also be great if you had a tree that grew money? It's also be great if alien civilizations exist. However, at present, there is no evidence that any of the three situations exist.

[Aidan]

Olber's Paradox, redshift, discovery of cosmic background radiation, and more observational evidence point to a finite universe that is currently expanding and at one time was in a dense, isothermal state.

Emperical, observational, repeatable evidence that points to the Big Bang model of cosmology. This makes it infinitely more plausible than an invisible, unobservable, diety that plays an active role in the universe.

You'll note that I've never contended that there isn't ANY possibility that some extra-universal agent exists, merely that there isn't a shred of hard evidence for it.

A lot of those theories are just that. Theories (Quantum Physics/Mechanics are mainly just theories too). Just like Gods and Goddesses are theories as well. Neither one can disprove the other, and the only thing that keeps religion going is the holes in which science has not (and probably will not) fill.

Again with my initial argument, something must have laid out the initial isothermal state. Nothing does not randomly blink into something. Then again, the creator could not have come from nowhere. Nothing doesn't blink into a sentient, all-powerful creator.

Sadly the argument of origin can carry on for a really long time and neither side will get really far XD

[Vasu]

But what if both theories can coexist to make one beautiful one? isnt it at all possible that whatever Divine Being created us used the laws of physics, biology, everything to make us? Isnt it possible to believe that God created the Big Bang, and did it in such a perfect way that everything that came afterwards would be in just the right place? that earth would be exactly the correct distance from the sun, and so on and so forth?

Once again, possible, improbable, no evidence either way.

[Jikanu]

*shrugs* would it not be the least bit more probable than everything just landing in the right way by chance?