Mage=Meatshield... uh no

**Zwivix** · 04-28-2008, 06:12 PM

If you dont have END Armor when you know your gonna be pulling some major agrro then you better get used to people saying that. All DD's at higher levels should have some kind of END based armor. Upgrading it is not hard. You can easily have an enhancer do it for you.

In our guild we have our own enhancer and we help each other look for good armor/weapons for each other.

If your having trouble finding some kind of armor just ask me and i can look around or keep an eye out for it. If you need an enhancer i can probably get you one.
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One word Scrolls?

**Ivramire** · 04-28-2008, 06:19 PM

I think more of the problem is, the perception of what a Mage is now supposed to be able to do.

Simply put, even if you deal monstrous amounts of damage, in the 7x bracket on Teva, if you don't get Hp extenders, +9 defensive END equips and are able to tank multiple mobs in TR, you're incomplete/crappy....

**Spirit** · 04-28-2008, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by Zwivix

If you dont have END Armor when you know your gonna be pulling some major agrro then you better get used to people saying that. All DD's at higher levels should have some kind of END based armor. Upgrading it is not hard. You can easily have an enhancer do it for you.

In our guild we have our own enhancer and we help each other look for good armor/weapons for each other.

If your having trouble finding some kind of armor just ask me and i can look around or keep an eye out for it. If you need an enhancer i can probably get you one.
---
One word Scrolls?

But some people might not be able to afford paying an enhancer or buying the stuff from the CS. They also might not be able to afford buying the prices marked in-game for the high END armour. It shouldn't be that we need this or that we need that. I can play my fighter all day long and not require ANY CS items or even any enhanced armour. Why should I have to on my mage?

**Zwivix** · 04-28-2008, 07:01 PM

Uhh then how the hell did you get to higher levels...if you cant afford stuff. You dont need CS items or to pay the CS you pay someone else...

is your fighter 7X...I dont think so. but when he is you'll also need to get upgraded armor and stuff.

The perception has changed, but thats the point. Perceptions change and if you wanna stay on top you change with it. If not you get left behind. Simple as that.

I dont complain about dying all the time when tanks cant keep the agrro even if their 5 levels higher than me...They dont complain that I cant tank a whole room.

I suggest get a different party. Look for someone that respects the way you play.

**Spirit** · 04-28-2008, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by Zwivix

Uhh then how the hell did you get to higher levels...if you cant afford stuff. You dont need CS items or to pay the CS you pay someone else...

is your fighter 7X...I dont think so. but when he is you'll also need to get upgraded armor and stuff.

The perception has changed, but thats the point. Perceptions change and if you wanna stay on top you change with it. If not you get left behind. Simple as that.

I dont complain about dying all the time when tanks cant keep the agrro even if their 5 levels higher than me...They dont complain that I cant tank a whole room.

I suggest get a different party. Look for someone that respects the way you play.

Wow. So, if we cannot afford to pay someone to enhance all of our equip and we cannot afford to enhance it ourselves, we do not need to be a high level? Hmmm.... interesting.
So, if I am not playing with a fighter that is equal or above my level I need to find another party? Hmmm.... interesting.
Oh and everyone I party with has to be able to afford to upgrade their equip? Hmmmm..... interesting.

I do think so. Tanks should be able to hold agro and have better skills. Mages should have to spend a fortune in CS, when fighters do not have to spend anything in order to play the game. Mages shouldn't have to prepare themselves to be a tank. Tanking is not the mages job.

Also, just FYI, I can afford it. My argument was for the people who can't. But, I also see no point it upgrading my armour, never have and never will. I will upgrawde my weapon, but my armour can stay how I buy it.

**Zwivix** · 04-28-2008, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by Spirit

Wow. So, if we cannot afford to pay someone to enhance all of our equip and we cannot afford to enhance it ourselves, we do not need to be a high level? Hmmm.... interesting.
So, if I am not playing with a fighter that is equal or above my level I need to find another party? Hmmm.... interesting.
Oh and everyone I party with has to be able to afford to upgrade their equip? Hmmmm..... interesting.

I do think so. Tanks should be able to hold agro and have better skills. Mages should have to spend a fortune in CS, when fighters do not have to spend anything in order to play the game. Mages shouldn't have to prepare themselves to be a tank. Tanking is not the mages job.

Also, just FYI, I can afford it. My argument was for the people who can't. But, I also see no point it upgrading my armour, never have and never will. I will upgrawde my weapon, but my armour can stay how I buy it.

If you couldnt buy all the lower level weapons or have gotten some extra money then you should get that high of a level. At high level if you still cant make money thats pretty sad...Intresting.

You cant make a comparison between two classes if your not comparing the same level bracet...Intresting.

Hmm Tanks are missing skills that allow them to keep agrro. Mages dont have to spend money they just have to deal with not having the best or fastest party or not spam their skills once their cooldown is gone so they dont take as much agrro. How about you let the tank take the agrro. Not like alot of morons that keep attacking even if they take all the agrro and know their gonna die.

Like I said if you cant make money at level 70 then thats pretty sad. If you dont upgrade your armor thats fine. I'm not telling you have to. Im just saying it would be beneficial for you and anyone you wanna party with.

**Triumph** · 04-28-2008, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by Loveless

I don't think it's really about the CD but to strengthen its effect. It's pretty obvious Mages' attacks are a LOT stronger than what Mock can pull off.

Just last night I met a 51 Mage who had def that was really close to what I had. He told me he can tank if I can't keep aggro... then why don't you just keep on duoing with your partner? I am a (almost) full END build with END gear and +8 shield. o__o C'mon now... it's becoming a tad bit ridiculous. All the Mages are looking for END gear... they wouldn't even buy high INT wand/staves now.

INT is useless. Enough said.

A 30 INT weapon only yields 3-5 bonus damage. The reason END has so much emphasis is because it raises the mage's HP and Defense, which are the two lacking aspects to a mage. Each END point corresponds to 1 defense point; a +39 END level 70 chest armor, for instance, provides 82 defense + 39 + 105, which is 226 defense all by itself; nearly equal to the mage's base defense at that level.

**Yosei** · 04-28-2008, 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by Triumph

INT is useless. Enough said.

A 30 INT weapon only yields 3-5 bonus damage. The reason END has so much emphasis is because it raises the mage's HP and Defense, which are the two lacking aspects to a mage. Each END point corresponds to 1 defense point; a +39 END level 70 chest armor, for instance, provides 82 defense + 39 + 105, which is 226 defense all by itself; nearly equal to the mage's base defense at that level.

That will be unnecessary when/if they improve mock.

**Hessah** · 04-28-2008, 11:59 PM

This is a cool topic.

Not just mage, but archers are also pulling all the aggros off fighters too.

Totally agree with open post. If mage need to +9 all their gear and get all END gear, so they can TANK then, what's the point of having a fighter?

I think the problem here is fighters lost their tanking power, making their class useless. Regarding Mages should hold back their fire to stop pulling aggro, lets have at look at skill cooldowns:

Fighters:
- Mock is like 25 sec
- Devestate 20 sec
- lv 60 fighter AOE skill has a cool down of 3 mins!!

Mage:
- Magic Burst - 5 sec cool down
- Frost Nova - I dont know

Archer:
- AOE Poision - 7 sec?

Mages could do at least 5 AOE for the time that a fighter could do only 1-2 Mock/Devestate which is like.. weak... if mage/archers have to hold back their fire so they dont pull aggro then... heck.. u'll have a very SLOW AOE party...

So yeah, i think this is part of the skill balance issue as well, fighters became pretty useless from lvl 60+ coz they could only hold aggro for about 2 sec.. then all the mage, archer and even clerics are pulling all the mobs off them.. they cant do anything for another 20 sec...

Every class in Fiesta has their own job, is pretty well defined, Fighters are given the built to tank they should have more skills to help them keep aggro, while mage/archers does all the dmg...

Mage/Archers are damage dealers, they should only need to +9 their weapons (if anything needs to be enhanced at all), clerics / fighters can enhance their armour/shield... to amplify the ability for each class to do their own job..

So who are those people that are complaining that Mage should have END gear and tank too? Is it the cleric? Is it the Archer? Is it the Fighters? (Probably the cleric LOL!) But seriously, If mage could tank and do the dmg, then we dont need Archers and Fighters.

**Triumph** · 04-29-2008, 12:06 AM

Frost Nova's default cooldown is 15 seconds.

However, as general consensus goes: archers are unwanted. If you offer a grind party in TR a choice between an archer and a mage, a majority of the time that party will take the mage, if you discount all external factors except experience per hour efficiency.

Have you noticed how more and more duos are cropping up? Except for TR, duos are becoming a lot more common nowadays. The need for tanks and fighters has gone down in the upper level community. An example is the TR requests. Tanks find it tough to get a party, as do archers if there are mages around. I haven't seen any problems with clerics; there seems to be a shortage of 7x clerics at times. Mages can get parties rather quickly.