Deity Existence

[Vasu]

Hm. well, i assure you, that's not how it's supposed to be. They're supposed to back up their beliefs. Trust me, just because they're blind sheep doesnt mean all christians are.

And im saying he could forsee changing to option b in the future, but stick with option a right now, because it's the better choice till a certain time.

Yeah, I know, it's just that Christianity doesn't get the coverage and thought out belief it usually does in Europe or America.

It's like both of us banging our heads against brick walls, innit?

I guess we are just not able to understand each other's points here, so I shall drop it.

@ Vasu

First of all to go back to your proving a negative. I think that is what you called it, some things are coming a little quick and I am trying to do my job at the same time, so if I am wrong or am using the wrong reference I am sorry. You stated that you saying that you had fairies in your backyard was the same as the Bible. Your first hand account was the same as the one I brought up Moses leading the Jewish people out of Egypt. But your logic is most flawed. I did not say that it was one first hand account for Moses but an entire race of people who saw and agreed to what was written by Moses. So once you get a million people to confirm and swear that they also saw these fairies your statement is logically weak in comparison and in scientific words would be thrown out.

So it's numbers that will convince you? Well then in the Bhagavath Geetha, a million people fighting a war were convinced that they saw a four headed god appear in the sky after a guy shot an arrow at the sky after uttering a few Mantras. So why aren't you a Hindu? Hell, even the FSM has millions of followers around the world who are convinced that the world was created 500 (yes, five hundred) years ago by his Noodly Appendage. So why aren't you a pastafarian?


EVERY religious book claims to have millions of witnesses to a divine event. That does NOT make them true.

Besides, the Bible has first hand accounts of many people at the same time over thousands of years. It isn’t a one time thing for one person but Thousands of years and millions of people. Some would say scientifically proves it right there. It wasn’t just a one time event. So once again if after thousands of years and millions of first hand accounts to the fairies in your backyard then I will believe with out a shadow of a doubt.

So it's length of time that will convince you? Hinduism is the oldest religion in the world, and is yet practised by the majority of Indians. So why aren't you a Hindu? Do you believe in Hinduism without a shadow of doubt?

Or is proving a negative saying that you can’t prove God doesn’t exist or it is impossible to prove He doesn’t exist so therefore you don’t have to prove it. Seems like a cop out to me. Because once they thought the world was flat, no proof for or against it. They proved it was round so didn’t they prove the negative. Or am I missing your point all together. Cause it looks like they proved the negative.

They proved it was round, so they proved the positive. Proving the world was not flat was a by-product of proving that the world was round. "The world is round." That is a positive proven statement. "Therefore the world cannot be flat." That is the logically drawn conclusion.

To your omnipotent and omniscient argument, I tried to look up your example but was unable to find it. I think it had something to do with creating a rock so heavy it couldn’t be lifted. Which is a cute use of words but in and of itself is illogical with the definitions of the words. The words mean all knowing and all powerful, and have nothing to do with physical strength when describing God. God is spiritual and is all knowing and all powerful spiritual being. It doesn’t mean he can lift the universe with one hand tied behind his back. It means he has all knowledge and all power. Therefore once again your question is illogical with respect to the discussion of God. And scientifically should be thrown out.

Okay, I can frame that question in any way you want. Can god write a book so big that even he cannot remember what is in it?

As far as all knowing goes he makes his decisions and knows the outcome of those decisions so you are wondering why would he had made man knowing that they would sin and be thrown out of the Garden of Eden. But what you miss is he knew that would happen and made sure that there was a way to Him through Jesus Christ. Therefore he knew what actions man would make and He knew He had to do something to save them, which He did.

Well, I wasn't asking this, but it is an interesting point. And he also knew that he did not have to sacrifice his son. He could just say hey presto, like I already said.

To your epic rant on beliefs, once again you have taken something out of its context and moved it to another realm. The discussion has been on beliefs on whether a God exists or not. The beliefs stated were for this topic and this topic only on whether God exists. You have once again shown that you are not interested in hearing but only in spouting your beliefs. No one has ever stated that Hitler’s beliefs should be okay or allowed. Personal beliefs of Hitler and whether You agree with them or not was not the discussion. Why do you bring them up.

You asked me if everybody was entitled to their beliefs. I asked you whether Hitler was entitled to his. I heard, and I replied.

Is this thread really about people sharing their reasons why they believe in God. Well it looks like every time someone gives a reason you show how their reason is flawed and wrong. Doesn’t look like a discussion to me looks like a debate between believers in God and those who do not believe.

Which is exactly what it is. I asked for a reason for your beliefs. You stated them, and I showed why they are flawed (sorry if I am generalising here). You should not find any problem with this being a debate unless you are incapable of defending your beliefs, and I am sure that you are not.

Why do I believe in God? I have a personal relationship with God. I have felt his presence, seen Him work, and viewed His answering my prayers. I have a Bible that shows proof of His existence. The Bible also gives me instructions on how to live, gives me comfort in my trials and tribulations, and give me hope for the future. These are my reasons for believing. And they don’t have to convince you of anything. You have to decide for yourself. I believe your decision is most evident.

What exactly do you mean by "felt his presence"? How have you "viewed him answering your prayers"? If the Bible gives you all those things, I have no problem with you using it as a moral code, as I have already said. I have my own moral code. Everyone has theirs, everyone is entitled to theirs, and everyone needs theirs, as long as it does not hurt others.

What about it being 50% metaphore, 50% literal? it's possible that some is to be taken literally and some figuratively, correct?

Right, absolutely right. In fact, it's imperative that some or even most parts of it be taken figuratively. There are many Christians who hate Homosexuals for the simple reason that the Bible says to kill them.

But unfortunately, this is where the cop outs begin. Is there a part of the Bible that's wrong/impossible/contradictory? Simple! Throw it in the "figurative" bin.