Deity Existence

[Ivramire]

If chance is what you call it, why not?

[Jikanu]

*sigh* ok, i put my point into the wrong way. forget all possibilities of alien lifeforms. my point is, is it at all probable that everything we see is simply done by the flip of a coin? that the big bang just luckily scattered dust into the right places?

im not contented with dismissing my existance as a roll of the dice, a flip of a coin... it just doesnt seem right.

[Ivramire]

Again I have to ask, why not?


There is a difference between what we want and what is. Believe me, I want to believe in a being who cares about everyone, can do anything, and knows all there is. That there will be a balance and accountability for good and evil, punishment and reward for a life lived well. I just have trouble reconciling this world (and the suppositions of most religions) with what I see as reality in the present. Does not the presence of Evil itself contravene the edict that God is both All-Powerful or that he is All-Good? Both cannot be true.

[Jikanu]

It doesnt if you add in the factor that he's like our father; he wants us to do good on our own accord, not because he makes us. we had this debate earlier in the thread, you should go back and look at it

[Ivramire]

I might have lost that somewhere in the 300+ replies. Stilted somewhat by the fact that he's killed off people in some questionable circumstances. The rape and pillage by the Israelites of the native inhabitants of the Promised Land, whose only crime seemed to be existing. I'd list some more but...


And again why not? It can't just be because it doesn't feel right.

[Manzcar]

Since the talk has somewhat moved to evolutionary theory, I have never quite understood a few things.

First of all natural selection, which was the basis of how Darwin thought of evolution, is always explained as an animal adapting to it’s surroundings in order to survive.

For example, there are short neck giraffes and long neck giraffes. As food supply becomes less the long neck giraffes survive while the short neck giraffes die off. This leaves only long neck giraffes to have children producing long neck giraffes. This I completely understand and is logical, especially seeing the vast number of variables that DNA and RNA give to adapting to your surroundings.

What I don’t understand is the evolutionary leap that must be made to create a new species, and if we again take the above example.

There are short neck giraffes and long neck giraffes. As food supply becomes less the long neck giraffes survive while the short neck giraffes grow wings and become vultures. This leaves long neck giraffes to have children producing long neck giraffes. And short neck giraffes are now vultures and have vultures as children. This I completely don’t understand and is not logical.

But that is how evolution happens correct. One animal becomes a different animal leaving both the original and the new but nothing in between.


If this is going in a tangent that the OP does not want than just disregard my post.

[Jikanu]

Why not what? the dice thing? because i believe the chances are far too slim for everything to be made off of a roll of the dice.

[Ivramire]

There are short neck giraffes and long neck giraffes. As food supply becomes less the long neck giraffes survive while the short neck giraffes grow wings and become vultures. This leaves long neck giraffes to have children producing long neck giraffes. And short neck giraffes are now vultures and have vultures as children. This I completely don’t understand and is not logical.

But that is how evolution happens correct. One animal becomes a different animal leaving both the original and the new but nothing in between.

It...doesn't work that way. Short-neck giraffes getting wings is a process that would conceivably take so long that the short-necks would all die before any such mutation could take place. Also, the mutation to get wings strong enough to actually fly and adapt the rest of the giraffe into a vulture would take millions of years if it happened at all. Far more conceivable that a vulture would have evolved from another bird-like creature that would require less mutation. It's a slow process xD

Why not what? the dice thing? because i believe the chances are far too slim for everything to be made off of a roll of the dice.

No. Why can't you believe that it's all by ''chance?'' Other than your given reason that it doesn't feel right. I could say that there's no God because it doesn't feel right and that'd be about the same level.

[Jikanu]

the chances of all life being created by a roll of the dice is far too low.

[Ivramire]

A definitive statement with no citation or proof = opinion


Reply = The chances were enough.


Current statements cannot be proven one way or another = ?