Hrae

Jikanu · 09-05-2009, 09:00 AM

You know how that one time we were discussing watchmen, and you said that there were technically no heroes in the movie, and that's what the point was?

Well, for the most part i can see it. Rorschach's insane, Manhattan doesnt give a damn, Comedian's the Comedian, Specter's in it to please her mom... but what about nite owl? what was his major flaw? for the most part he seems to want to do what's right in a classic boyscout, "superhero" fashion. like in this video:

YouTube - HD Watchmen, 'The American Dream'

**Hraesvelg** · 09-05-2009, 09:11 AM

I think the general point in the discussion was that anyone that puts on a costume and fights crime isn't exactly right in the head. About the only real sort of psychological flaw that I can remember about Nite Owl II was that he was a real obsessive fanboy type.

Edit: After rereading said thread, I did say emphatically that there were no heroes. Do you think it was heroic when he broke that nutball Rorschach out of prison?

Jikanu · 09-05-2009, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by Hraesvelg

I think the general point in the discussion was that anyone that puts on a costume and fights crime isn't exactly right in the head. About the only real sort of psychological flaw that I can remember about Nite Owl II was that he was a real obsessive fanboy type.

Edit: After rereading said thread, I did say emphatically that there were no heroes. Do you think it was heroic when he broke that nutball Rorschach out of prison?

Hm... To a degree, yes. He thought Rorschach could do more good than bad if he was out. And he knew rorschach would only use violence against villains. So yes, to a degree, i think it was heroic.

and yeah, Rorschach was a loon. but he at least had a few moral lines. For example, while he did LAUGH at his mothers death, at least he didnt COMMIT it, despite the massive rage and animosity he had towards her.

**Hraesvelg** · 09-05-2009, 09:28 AM

That sort of thinking leads to "Well, those suicide bombers at least had some moral lines..."

Jikanu · 09-05-2009, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by Hraesvelg

That sort of thinking leads to "Well, those suicide bombers at least had some moral lines..."

not really... he only hurt people who either tried to kill him (Self defense) or who were the lowest of the low. I dont AGREE with his tactics, but he could at least think straight and do what was pseudo-right.

**Hraesvelg** · 09-05-2009, 09:34 AM

Have you read the books yet?

**Ivramire** · 09-05-2009, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by Jikanu

not really... he only hurt people who either tried to kill him (Self defense) or who were the lowest of the low. I dont AGREE with his tactics, but he could at least think straight and do what was pseudo-right.

Debatable. His idealistic view of right or wrong, absolute non-compromise, would have plunged the nations into nuclear conflict all over again, undoing the delicate balancing act set-up by Ozymandias and D. Manhattan and deeming the lives sacrificed meaningless.

Rorschach, if he had had his way at the end of the movie, would have had his moral victory, at the cost of every sentient life on the planet. Not exactly right thinking.

**Ivramire** · 09-05-2009, 04:29 PM

None of us can speak for a fictional character's thought processes so who knows.

And I thought the Comedian at least became a little less unhinged by the time he was killed. Still a toss-up between Rorschach and Comedian if you wanna compare sanity levels (less than 9000?) but any improvement is....eh, never mind.

Jikanu · 09-05-2009, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Ivramire

None of us can speak for a fictional character's thought processes so who knows.

And I thought the Comedian at least became a little less unhinged by the time he was killed. Still a toss-up between Rorschach and Comedian if you wanna compare sanity levels (less than 9000?) but any improvement is....eh, never mind.

...he shot a woman who was pregnant with his child.

**Ivramire** · 09-05-2009, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Jikanu

...he shot a woman who was pregnant with his child.

Originally Posted by Ivramire

And I thought the Comedian at least became a little less unhinged by the time he was killed. Still a toss-up between Rorschach and Comedian if you wanna compare sanity levels (less than 9000?) but any improvement is....eh, never mind.

He was just a bit saner by the end than he was at the beginning. If his drunken apologies and cessation of covert work for government agencies is any indication. Which is why I used ''any improvement''.