Deity Existence

[Manzcar]

I've seen in this thread that many people will post their beliefs in that there is a God. And others will refute the fact that there is a God by tearing down what the others have stated for their reasoning that there is a God.

I propose to then turn the tables. It is obvious that there are those that have a firm belief that there is no God. So I am open to here how you can prove that there is not a God.

Please give me your proofs that there is no God and maybe you will be able to convince me that there is not a God.

[Senyx The Soulless one]

I've seen in this thread that many people will post their beliefs in that there is a God. And others will refute the fact that there is a God by tearing down what the others have stated for their reasoning that there is a God.

I propose to then turn the tables. It is obvious that there are those that have a firm belief that there is no God. So I am open to here how you can prove that there is not a God.

Please give me your proofs that there is no God and maybe you will be able to convince me that there is not a God.

This is the core of what makes religion, Religion.

Are you willing to put all of your faith into an unseeable entity? That will not once affect or direct your life, Giving you so many choices to make each day, with only 2 outcomes, IF you live your life how you want to, completely unashamed of your actions, You will go to hell.
If you live your live with this entity as your guide, Following it mindlessly, never making your own choices, but rather the predetermined ones, Then you go to heaven, Is that what religion really is? The loss of frewe will, in the name of an unsure afterlife?

[Manzcar]

This is the core of what makes religion, Religion.

Are you willing to put all of your faith into an unseeable entity? That will not once affect or direct your life, Giving you so many choices to make each day, with only 2 outcomes, IF you live your life how you want to, completely unashamed of your actions, You will go to hell.
If you live your live with this entity as your guide, Following it mindlessly, never making your own choices, but rather the predetermined ones, Then you go to heaven, Is that what religion really is? The loss of frewe will, in the name of an unsure afterlife?

So how does you statement show that there is not a God. I make choices everyday. I choose my pants, and my shirt, and what I will eat. And none of those choices will send me to Hell so your statements neither prove that God does not exist nor do they really make any sense what so ever.

Again I say show me proof that there is no God.

[Hraesvelg]

I've seen in this thread that many people will post their beliefs in that there is a God. And others will refute the fact that there is a God by tearing down what the others have stated for their reasoning that there is a God.

I propose to then turn the tables. It is obvious that there are those that have a firm belief that there is no God. So I am open to here how you can prove that there is not a God.

Please give me your proofs that there is no God and maybe you will be able to convince me that there is not a God.

You'll note that the claim isn't being made that there absolutely, no-way possible that there is some sort of diety. We are not the ones making positive claims, i.e., "A god does exist." Extraordinary claims call for extraordinary evidence.

One cannot "prove" a negative. But I'll make you a deal...I'll prove to you that God doesn't exist just as soon as you prove that there aren't magical invisible fairies that live in my garage.

[Senyx The Soulless one]

So how does you statement show that there is not a God. I make choices everyday. I choose my pants, and my shirt, and what I will eat. And none of those choices will send me to Hell so your statements neither prove that God does not exist nor do they really make any sense what so ever.

Again I say show me proof that there is no God.

I do not try to disprove "God" though i find believeing in him to be very difficult as all he is doing right now would be to sit here and watch what sad state this world is in, That is NOT the kind of god i would worship. A god that watches us kill each other over something like oil, or how we run the place, I want a fair god, And therefore, I beleive myself to be my god. I make my decisions, decide what happens, Are we not all our own gods, OR perhaps the people that use us make THEM gods? We all believe what we want, It's out nature, Religion really takes going out on a wing, And like i said, I'd rather believe in nothing and be wrong, Then believe in SOMETHING and be wrong.

But i actually have no problem with christians, I won't insult them, Hell, i hang out with them, But i just really do not want to be a part of the religious scene. It's just not for me.

But just to make people mad, Show me proof there IS a god.

[Vasu]

No, what I don't get is why I have to suffer for sins committed by people I had no control over. I could not have stopped them from eating those fruits, so I am in no way responsible for what was done. So why am I not given an opportunity in the Garden of Eden?

And by the way, I'm still waiting for answers to these. You could take a look at them too, Manz.

• The burden of proof lies with the person who proposes a theory.
  
  
• If everything needs a creator, then so does God. Infinite regression.
  
  
• There are those who believe that the universe is so complex, that someone absolutely must have turned all the dials, manipulated the figures, and therefore designed it this way. Point one; a designer is not necessary, natural selection will suffice. Point two; exactly how complex would a god need to be to do this? Therefore creating another infinite regression.
  
  
• There are so many religions, and each is just as difficult to prove/disprove. What is your explanation for picking yours, and dismissing the rest?
  
  

  Originally Posted by Stephen Henry Roberts

  I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

  
  
• Absolute omnipotence is impossible.
  
  
• Omniscience and omnipotence are incompatible.
  
  
• Religion/belief in god are not required to lead a moral life.
  
  
• While it is impossible to wholly disprove the existence of any god, it is more than possible to deal with the probability of such a being's existence, and the odds do not sway god's way.

I've seen in this thread that many people will post their beliefs in that there is a God. And others will refute the fact that there is a God by tearing down what the others have stated for their reasoning that there is a God.

I propose to then turn the tables. It is obvious that there are those that have a firm belief that there is no God. So I am open to here how you can prove that there is not a God.

Please give me your proofs that there is no God and maybe you will be able to convince me that there is not a God.

First, it is impossible to prove a negative. It is called the argument from ignorance.

Argument from ignorance
The two most common forms of the argument from ignorance, both fallacious, can be reduced to the following form:

• Something is currently unexplained or insufficiently understood or explained, so it is not (or must not be) true.
• Because there appears to be a lack of evidence for one hypothesis, another chosen hypothesis is therefore considered proven.

Second of all, I have stated and re-stated already in this thread that the burden of proof lies with the proposer. Why don't you prove to me, that the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist, and then I can prove that your god doesn't exist. Why don't you prove to me that Invisible Pink Unicorns don't exist, and I will prove to you that your god doesn't exist. Hell, why don't you prove to me that Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry doesn't exist, and I will prove that god doesn't exist.

And lastly, I have always said that the probability of god's existence is low. I have never outruled god. Why don't you look at my first post in the thread (the one that addressed the voters based on what option they voted for).

[Senyx The Soulless one]

No, what I don't get is why I have to suffer for sins committed by people I had no control over. I could not have stopped them from eating those fruits, so I am in no way responsible for what was done. So why am I not given an opportunity in the Garden of Eden?

And by the way, I'm still waiting for answers to these. You could take a look at them too, Manz.








First, it is impossible to prove a negative. It is called the argument from ignorance.



Second of all, I have stated and re-stated already in this thread that the burden of proof lies with the proposer. Why don't you prove to me, that the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist, and then I can prove that your god doesn't exist. Why don't you prove to me that Invisible Pink Unicorns don't exist, and I will prove to you that your god doesn't exist. Hell, why don't you prove to me that Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry doesn't exist, and I will prove that god doesn't exist.

And lastly, I have always said that the probability of god's existence is low. I have never outruled god. Why don't you look at my first post in the thread (the one that addressed the voters based on what option they voted for).

Well for one, The "Truth" i was raised to believe is that God has always been there. An eternity before us, Sitting there, no one created him, He has just always been there, If you think to hard, Your head starts to hurt, no?
And secondly, Why would god sit there for an infinity before us? Was he bored and decided to make us?

And also: Adam and Eve were the most base version of humanity, God knew that they were capable of wrongdoing and gave them that choice, I believe that god knows what we would have all done, before we, ourselves did it, Fair? No. But that's just how lovely he is.
I personally would have been happy naked and stupid. But clothed and banished from a garden seems okay too..

My point stands: What god is that merciless?

[Manzcar]

You'll note that the claim isn't being made that there absolutely, no-way possible that there is some sort of diety. We are not the ones making positive claims, i.e., "A god does exist." Extraordinary claims call for extraordinary evidence.

One cannot "prove" a negative. But I'll make you a deal...I'll prove to you that God doesn't exist just as soon as you prove that there aren't magical invisible fairies that live in my garage.

The Bible is full of proof. First had accounts of people meeting, speaking, and learning from God. Centuries of historical proof that shows that God is there. That is proof. If you state that the Bible can not be used, then you in return can not use any books, writings, or historical events as backing to prove your points.

And by the way the Bible is full of extraordinary evidence. Some would even say supernatural.

I do not try to disprove "God" though i find believeing in him to be very difficult as all he is doing right now would be to sit here and watch what sad state this world is in, That is NOT the kind of god i would worship. A god that watches us kill each other over something like oil, or how we run the place, I want a fair god, And therefore, I beleive myself to be my god. I make my decisions, decide what happens, Are we not all our own gods, OR perhaps the people that use us make THEM gods? We all believe what we want, It's out nature, Religion really takes going out on a wing, And like i said, I'd rather believe in nothing and be wrong, Then believe in SOMETHING and be wrong.

But i actually have no problem with christians, I won't insult them, Hell, i hang out with them, But i just really do not want to be a part of the religious scene. It's just not for me.

But just to make people mad, Show me proof there IS a god.

First of all God does not like the state the world is in. God did not like the original sin in the garden of eden. God loves everyone and wants to have a personal relationship with Him. God does not like religion or religious piety. Jesus himself called the religious elitists of the Jewish people a brood of vipers. I have seen people that were so called religious people do evil things. These people were not a child of God and did not have a personal relationship with God. And that is what God wants is a relationship with you. Our natural nature is selfish and self gratifying.

Again I offer the historical proof of the Bible taken over thousands of years that there is a God.

No, what I don't get is why I have to suffer for sins committed by people I had no control over. I could not have stopped them from eating those fruits, so I am in no way responsible for what was done. So why am I not given an opportunity in the Garden of Eden?

And by the way, I'm still waiting for answers to these. You could take a look at them too, Manz.








First, it is impossible to prove a negative. It is called the argument from ignorance.



Second of all, I have stated and re-stated already in this thread that the burden of proof lies with the proposer. Why don't you prove to me, that the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist, and then I can prove that your god doesn't exist. Why don't you prove to me that Invisible Pink Unicorns don't exist, and I will prove to you that your god doesn't exist. Hell, why don't you prove to me that Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry doesn't exist, and I will prove that god doesn't exist.

And lastly, I have always said that the probability of god's existence is low. I have never outruled god. Why don't you look at my first post in the thread (the one that addressed the voters based on what option they voted for).

First of all aren’t you the proposer of this thread. And you have proposed that there is no God or that the existence is nearly impossible. And when people have stated that they believe you have answered in such a way that would lead one to believe that you do not believe in a God. So isn’t then the burden of proof on you.

Again I offer proof from the Bible that has historical and first hand accounts of dealings with God. My proof is well documented in many languages and forms.

[Senyx The Soulless one]

Jesus was a man like us, And died like a man as well. The difference between us and him is that he actually had god helping him.

God lost his only son, only for him to rise 3 days later?

People on earth lose children, family, loved ones, in more brutal ways then this, do we not feel pain as well? Is god more "Worthy" of grieving?

Tch. seriously, we are all human, we all feel pain, Jesus was human, he felt pain, but then he rose again.

What am I trying to prove?

At times i feel like god is full of himself.

[Vasu]

Yes, I am the starter of this thread. Yes, I believe god almost certainly does not exist because there is no proof of his existence. I am not proposing that "God does not exist because of <proof 1>, <proof 2>." I am saying god almost certainly does not exist because of lack of proof.

And no, the Bible is not proof. It says Moses talked to god. Where is the proof that he did talk? It says Mary was pregnant, and yet a virgin. How? It says Jesus walked on water. How?

I know you guys are probably tired of me bringing up the FSM over and over again, but I shall write here like this: The FSM exists.

There, I have just offered "proof" for the existence of the FSM, because the holy post number 90 in the holy page number 9 of the holy thread number 15388 in the holy forums of the FiestaFan said so. That enough proof for you?

And I am tired of your not responding to points you cannot counter. Try responding to some of the points such as the one about absolute omnipotence, and the incompatibility of it with omniscience.