Deity Existence

[Jikanu]

So if I was to pray sincerely for world peace, he would give it?

I honestly dont know. perhaps there's some things that he just wants us to learn for ourselves. if he just handed us world peace, there wouldnt be much of a lesson involved; we would abuse it just like we have with the planet so far. human beings need to learn how to live in harmony, really.

And to Hrae, perhaps there's a reason people lose their limbs; it's a horrible thing, but sometimes it can lead to good things in the end. Perhaps they meet the love of their life, or a good friend, or learn a good lesson because of it all, and their lives are better for it.

[Hraesvelg]

Lots of perhapses in there. Perhaps...God only speaks Klingon.

[Jikanu]

I only say perhaps because im not sure. no one is. You arent sure on certain things with science, such as dark energy, and the other mysteries of space. the same concept applies, really.

[Hraesvelg]

In this instance, with lack of the ability to confirm, your perhapses and my perhapses have equal weight. We could perhaps ourselves all over the place about the nature of something we can't know exists and we'd be discussing how many angels are dancing on the head of a pin. It's equally absurd because our statements are untestable and unverifiable.

This is a fundamental difference between faith and science. Science tests the ideas it comes up with. Some ideas are currently not able to be tested due to lack of technology, but technology progresses and eventually tests these ideas.

This might help illustrate the principle:
http://www.vincentchow.net/images/science-vs-faith.jpg

[Jikanu]

But there's not always contradicting evidence with faith. Some of it's just untestable *AT THIS POINT* just as some science is untestable *AT THIS POINT*.

There's still very many mysteries out there, for both Faith and Science. I still dont see why the two cant co-mingle. Even Stephen Hawkings has belief that a God is possible.

[Hraesvelg]

I've never said the existence of some sort of creator-being isn't possible, but you're getting into little details about the motivation of said being, which aren't testable or falsifiable.

Perhaps God is just a sadistic asshole that likes causing pain to his creations, much like a petulant four year old. Do you see why this sort of speculation is useless, now?

And before you rely on the "I'm not a theologian" angle again, the theologians don't have good answers to these questions, either.

[Jikanu]

No one does, really. There's no way to know until we die. i've stated that several times :/

[Hraesvelg]

So...why make up stuff that we can't know until we die? It seems like a pointless exercise in mental masturbation. And then to base your entire life around? To convince others that your way is correct? To make life and political decisions off what you think some being might want that you can't know?

[Vasu]

It's like you're living your entire life in fear actually. "This may be right, but we don't know until we die, so we better be good and limit ourselves our entire life just so that we don't go to this unprovable hell when we die."

[Jikanu]

It's like you're living your entire life in fear actually. "This may be right, but we don't know until we die, so we better be good and limit ourselves our entire life just so that we don't go to this unprovable hell when we die."

Really? from what i've seen the 10 Commandments and such are just guildelines to a respectable life. Treat your elders well. Dont cheat on your spouse. Dont cheat with someone else's spouse. dont be promiscuous and get STD's. Dont kill. Dont steal. Dont hate.

And hrae, i believe in it because it all just... makes sense. It all just feels right. Most of the Church's teachings make full sense to me. i disagree with a few of the social things, but most of them make full sense to me.