Deity Existence

[Aidan]

Well, the idea that a god set the world in motion but no longer has any part in it would make sense, but I still can't bring myself to believe it. Dx It's a good explanation though. Because I honestly can't believe like some people that God/gods watch over us and choose our lives for us and all that.. If that were true, that'd be one... malicious god. ._.

Eh, I can't honestly say I believe god or any spiritual entity affects the current world right now. Maybe in a future time but not right now.

Some Christians do think that God's got a plan for it all and God's "watching over us". Though nothing in the bible suggests that God is doing anything in our world right now. He put things in motion (Genesis, Birth of Christ, Departure of Christ, etc), and according to the book of Revelation, he will come to put an end to what he started later. Those Christians that believe that God has planned all this stuff to happen so far here are wrong. God is not responsible for the trash our world is. We are.

[Vasu]

I am sorry but you have miss quoted the Bible.

The reference you have shown is actually.

Leviticus 20:13: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

The reference of the chapter is the judgement of God upon these sins. Not Man judging these sins.

They shall be put to death by God and punished by God not by man.

Man is not to judge other men only their actions.

My point is WHY is homosexuality a sin? Why should they be put to death whether it is by man or god?

I too am too lazy to read everything.

While I do agree that science explains a lot, and manly "miracles" have a scientific explanation, science cannot explain our true origin. You can look at the biogenesis theory, "All Cells come from Pre-existing cells".

That means humans and everything on earth came from a single cell at some point. However, what could have made this cell? Many can say chemical/molecular reactions occurring in a small area could have sparked the need for a shielded area to do these reactions (end product: a cell)

Then we run into the whole, "Well where did the first Atom come from?" then we say, "Energy." but then, "Where did energy come from?" and it stops there. Science may only go that far. We either leave it as nothing turning into something (Which isn't possible since you can't make something into nothing), or use divine theory to fill in that gap. Divine theories have their own gaps too but they do help clear the haze.

I'd have to believe like the deists back during the enlightenment. The one god set the world in motion and lets it operate on it's own (much like a clock).

Divine theory does not fill any gap. Well, it does, but it only creates a bigger one. It creates a complex, capable-of-anything creature who does not need a creator.


And I'll put this in one last time in case someone else understands.


God foresaw picking option A.

In effect, he foresaw NOT picking option B.

Now, my question is, can he change to option B now?

[Aidan]

Divine theory does not fill any gap. Well, it does, but it only creates a bigger one. It creates a complex, capable-of-anything creature who does not need a creator.


And I'll put this in one last time in case someone else understands.


God foresaw picking option A.

In effect, he foresaw NOT picking option B.

Now, my question is, can he change to option B now?

I did mention that Divine Theory has it's gaps. Ultimately, nothing can explain true origins. Divine theory can at least tell us where energy and matter possibly came from, since there's no real scientific explanation. Of course, like you said, we then ask "Where did the creator come from?"

For the options A and B, I'm not sure I get it. If you mean God changing something in the world that is about to happen/has already happened, I'll have to say no/yes. At least, by the Christian example, God is not capable of looking into the future. When the people were building the tower of Babylon, he never saw it coming. Though when it did happen he was able to change it indirectly. Mainly by wiping the slate clean, but it still changed it.

It only further supports my clockmaker god belief.

[Vasu]

But the Bible states that God is all knowing and all powerful.

If you look up Genesis 18:14, Luke 18:27, Revelation 19:6, it states that god is all powerful.

If you look up Psalm 139:2-6 and Isaiah 40:13-14, it states that god is all knowing.

The fact that he didn't see the Tower of Babylon coming is just another contradiction in the Bible.

So therefore, if God can change his future mind, he is not all knowing, and if he cannot, he is not all powerful.

[Jikanu]

Vasu, i thought we agreed that neither of us were going to understand the others point. *Sigh*

And as for homosexuality, the general idea is that sexual things done simply for pleasure are wrong, though as previously stated i dont neccesarilly agree with that doctrine.

Well, the idea that a god set the world in motion but no longer has any part in it would make sense, but I still can't bring myself to believe it. Dx It's a good explanation though. Because I honestly can't believe like some people that God/gods watch over us and choose our lives for us and all that.. If that were true, that'd be one... malicious god. ._.

Christianity doesnt have that as the doctrine. we believe that if you pray enough, he may intervene, but he allows us to have freedom of choice.

[Vasu]

Vasu, i thought we agreed that neither of us were going to understand the others point. *Sigh*

I put it out there for others who didn't read the full thread, in case somebody else would understand. You really should pay closer attention while reading.

And I'll put this in one last time in case someone else understands.


God foresaw picking option A.

In effect, he foresaw NOT picking option B.

Now, my question is, can he change to option B now?

And as for homosexuality, the general idea is that sexual things done simply for pleasure are wrong, though as previously stated i dont neccesarilly agree with that doctrine.

My question is why the Bible doesn't seem to agree with it, and why you are picking and choosing the doctrines in the Bible to follow.

[Jikanu]

im not picking and choosing. not in the slightest. you seem to only think of the old testament when you think of the bible, though.

And since you get to remake your claim, i'll go ahead and remake mine:

God CAN be omnipotent and all powerful at the same time, but you also have to factor in that he's all knowing and the epitome of wisdom. He forms a plan that is 100% correct, and therefore needs not change it; he knows he could if he wanted to, but he doesnt. He has the power to, but decides not to use it.

[Vasu]

All the OT laws still apply today.

Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I come not to abolish but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

And you did not answer as to why you think the Bible hates homosexuals.

[Jikanu]

By fufill, he ment make them complete; bring them to their full glory. Christ taught a doctrine of forgiveness and love. and i think the old testament days required some strict action, seeing as it was pure chaos without any true moral code before the 10 commandments. I believe that Christ reformed those laws and brought them to their true glory as a thing of forgiveness and love for humankind.

[Vasu]

By fulfill, he also meant fulfill the prophecies, as is clearly mentioned, and some prophecies are meant to be fulfilled in his second coming.


And you still haven't answered.