[Jikanu]

So are you telling me that the only reason you aren't raping and killing is the fear of some sort of punishment in the afterlife? Wow. I don't do those things because I care about my fellow man. I had no idea you were so weak, ethically speaking, Manz.

He wasnt saying that. He was saying that from an atheists veiwpoint, we're nothing more than advanced animals. Therefore, if we were as atheists make us out to be, we would rape and kill without end. The sense of wrong and right comes from somewhere else, as it would make no sense in terms of plain, cold logic. Of course Manz doesnt do that stuff, as he too loves his fellow man. He's just trying to point out the flaw in your argument, as a sense of right and wrong needs to come from somewhere. Not from a fear of a supernatural punishment, but instead an understanding of right and wrong, as told to us by some form of authority.

The basic problem is assuming that he gives a shit about us, bothers to communicate with us, and actually involves himself with the needs of petty individuals.




My point is that no sacrifice was necessary to save us all. He could have saved us all without bloodshed, and yet he chose to have his son gruesomely murdered.



You are basically grasping on straws here. It's like driving around a big city, finding one license plate that reads "BA345", another which reads "BT942" and saying, "Hmm, they both start with 'B', there must be a connection!" And they also have '4' at the second last position, we're getting warm here!" Never mind that fact that the rest of the numbers/letters don't match.



We shouldn't really have to go back to previous stances, because, as I said, once it is disproved, the other stances dependent on it become useless. So unless we've trailed off on an argument, and just abandoned it midway, I don't think we've really lifted any issue that was done and dusted.

1. That's possible, however it's just as unlikely as him loving us dearly. Perhaps he doesnt view us as petty individuals, but instead as something that acctually has potential.

2. See my previous post in responce to hraesvelgs same claims. it might be the nature of Sin. We still know little about it.

3. But license plates are random; faith is something more. it's a relationship with something greater than what mankind's ever seen.

4. Meh. regardless, let's just move on with the thread.