Yes, true. I am quite weak. Im an epic failure when it comes to that sort of stuff. However, we are living a society in which the intelligent and cunning can prosper just as much as the strong.

And ralath, you're forgetting that, just as easily as a mob mentality can form, so can a balance between a mentality in which individualism and communalism (if that's even a word) can meld together so that neither apathy nor a "Brave New World" "Everyone belongs to everyone else" mentality can form.

Eh, that's debatable, but for the most part I can agree with that. However, we are not in an anarchistic society. I...think you just made my point.

Correct, but we're not debating the reality of the matter, but instead possible alternatives to a future reality. I.e. What forms of alternative societies may prosper far better than this one has thus far.

You must not forget that this country was not founded on the ideals of "Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness." It was founded on Slavery, the Blood of the Natives, Lies, tyranny (i.e. 2nd president of the U.S.) Hypocrites and Fakes. Therefore, the present state of the heads, assuming the traits of the former "leaders" (or, just as well, tyrants) of this country have passed down the line to our current ones.

If we're talking pure theory, socialism and Objectivism both are great. So is a benevolent dictator. I like to live in the real world, though. We have a system. It isn't perfect, but it works, given enough time and effort. No need to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

We can talk realism, not idealism, im just talking possible alternatives to the current state of the world.

For example, there is no such thing as a benevolent dictator, as power corrupts.

Then he wouldn't be benevolent, would he? I never said it would work in the real world, you said you were discussing political theory, which is all well and good, but it rarely even meets reality.

A Benevolent Dictator is about as possible as the first Unicorn President of the United States of Fairyland. It just doesnt happen in a human world. It's possible, but very very unlikely.

And let's not seperate the debate into any one category. i just want a pure debate on how certain political ideas could work in the real world. For example, what do you think of trotskyism?

Obama just doesn't have the experience to lead this nation. He is such a great speech maker he is able to alter the ideas of the people without doing anything really. I didn't watch the video because it wont show for some reason. Not to be highly offensive or anything, but if Barack Obama was not African American he would probably, no almost definately not be elected.

no, if we hadnt had a REPUBLICAN screw up so much he wouldnt have been elected.

And experience means nothing, in the end. Bush was the son of a former president, and the brother of a govenor. think he didnt have any political experience?