What exactly constitutes kill stealing?
 

OK, the reason I have made this thread is because I have been in numerous situations where I have been called a kill stealer(KSer) or have been KS'd. So, what exactly needs to happen for someone to have really KS'd?

Let's start with some obvious situations:

• You or your party is killing a mob and someone comes up and starts killing it.

Great! We have the definite's out of the way. Now what about the ones that people have different opinions on?

Let us list some of those shall we?

• Someone is killing a mob and another one starts attacking that person. You attack the one that hasn't been damaged.
• You have been killing in a spot for quite a while in a certain spot. Suddenly a person takes all the mobs and proceeds to do an AOE party right next to you. You pull one of the mobs not yet damaged and kill it.
• A non-aoe class(I.E. Cleric) pulls two or more of a mob when there is many around. You take the one not being damaged.
• A non-aoe class(I.E. Cleric) pulls two or more of a mob when there is not many around. You take the one not being damaged.
• Someone calls a certain mob that spawns rarely. You get to it first. Did you KS?
• Someone has declared a "spot" in which every mob is his. You attack one of the mobs he isn't attacking.

Personally, I go by my own rules when it comes to KS'ing and tell people too bad if they think otherwise:

1. If someone is attacking a mob, don't attack it.
2. "Spots" don't exists. You can't declare a certain area only yours.
3. If there is more than one spot for the mob don't go where someone else is killing. (I.E. Orcs)
4. If many people are soloing and a party decides to aoe everything leaving nothing for anyone else, take one of their mobs. It's not fair to everyone else.
5. For any class but clerics, more than 5 mobs is a little greedy. Again it's not fair to steal all the mobs of an area when people are soloing there.
6. If your a cleric, one mob at a time. Deal with it. (Unless it's a rarer mob that spawns less than normal.)

Comments?

^ [1st one] People consider it kill stealing since they drew the monster's aggro first... Well some people...

^ [2nd one] I hate it when that happens to me and I take any mobs not damaged yet.

Not only the action but the intent matters I guess. Though that's hard to gauge in a MMORPG, it's excusable if someone is lagging or just auto-tabbed.


Yeah, there's the obvious KSing where they don't care that they're hitting mobs that you were already killing, but in every other situation that's vague you should try to talk it out instead of getting right down to petulant crys of 'NOob KSer!!1 I kill you and GW!!' that so often seem to start at the drop of a hat. If they're after a mob for a quest that you're killing, why don't you just party for a while or make a more long-term grind party.

I was in goblin camp killing mushrooms and captains in my favorite spot. Now there are a lot of spawns in this area so I don't claim to have the entire thing beacause there are a lot of monsters in the area.

But once someone on a racoon comes zipping through and pulls them all like 10 monsters as I am trying to pull one of the Mushrooms.

Well I pull the mushroom and kill it and this person yells out I didn't pull all the monsters so you could pick one off.

My reply was sorry didn't really mean to do that to you. I've been killing here for over a half of an hour until you came along and took the entire area over. Sorry that I took one.

They just left the area after that. Which is worse kill stealing or monster hogging.

In Fiesta... As long as that person has the aggro first, the mob is theirs..

Doesnt matter what class they are. I'm a cleric and if I aggroed 10 mobs then they're all mine unless I ask for help.

No such thing as spot claiming. Again, whoever got the aggro first, gets the mob. But as courtesy you don't go invading a space that someone is already grinding in.

AOE party get watever they aggro first.

Basically, when you hit a mob that's already hitting someone else, you're KSing. Doesnt matter if they're in party or wat class they are.

I have to thoroughly disagree. Having agro'd 2 of something while there are plenty of mobs around, I'm going to take the one your not killing. Once you finish killing the one, go get another yourself. One party just doesn't have the right to take an entire mob spawn because they can and agro'd first.

Thats just plain bull**** in my opinion.

I disagree with that. If there are plenty of mobs around, why don't *you* go and get another one yourself?

Why should I have to go find the mob I want when that person isn't attacking it. Depending on the situation I could have to fight through something completly different to get to it. Let's say I was in Vine Tomb fighting Hobs. Someone takes two of the last spawns in the area. I could go move to where there is more hobs that is packed with ghosts, spiders, and imps; or I could take the mob he isn't attacking. I compeltly thing that is greed especially when you can't even aoe.

IMO

I don't unless that person asks for help. You never know how people react and why bother risking getting someone upset.
KS. Not a big deal for me if someone were to do it though.
If they pull it, it's theirs.
Still theirs.
No.
No.

My least favorite situation is when two people attack the monster at the same time. It happens more often on my Archer than it does on my Cleric but I did it yesterday on my Cleric too and the other person accused me of KSing even though we attacked it at the same time. -.-

In that scenario, I say both people can keep attacking and neither would be KSing and whoever gets the drops, gets the drops.

Uhm...I thought I read somewhere that it was the first person to deal damage, not draw aggro?

I also thought when i read that, that it made sense because the exp cut resulting from a KS is due to damage, not aggro. Also, isn't who gets the first moments "rights" to the drops based on damage?

I dun suppose there is some "official-ish" Fiesta/Outspark definition somewhere?

As per the cleric pulls, I worded it in a way I didn't mean to an extent. If they didn't pull on purpose, is how it should have been said.

it is very vague! That is the exact reason I wanted more of peoples opinions on the Title of this thread.

In my opinion, KS is when you are attacking a mob and another person outside of your party comes and kills it while you are attacking/aoeing. Doesn't matter if he saw it first, he selected it first, it was in his spot, or it was attacking him. If you hit it first, it's your kill, someone comes to kill it while you are attacking, it's a KS.

so its hit-based? not aggro-based?:lost:

I see many have disagreed with this, and I will have to too - though many might find it pointless or whatever...

I've once been told not to KS when I tried to help (to me, it was helping the guy with the aggro, because his HP kept on decreasing rapidly and I didn't want to just be healing that guy) by taking down mobs one by one. As long as one didn't deliberately pull all the mobs, I think anyone has the right to take mobs with good intentions. However, the story changed when it comes to taking mobs by mock or other mages' archers' aoe skills, that's just plain rude and IS KSing.

I think if you are aggrevating, and don't want anyone taking your mobs, you should tell in advance...:/ before others come and take them I mean, you can turn your views around, right? Something like "No thanks, I'll be fine, leave the mobs on me" would be polite enough...Same for many others.

:uhoh: <--had to use it again :D so cute

Yep...since the 'definition' of KS isn't defined anywhere really...and because we all have different ways of looking at it....:S Misunderstanding is very easily done.

I think he was just talking about the other person attacking your mob is KSing no matter the other person saw that mob and decided to kill it, not aggrevating it etc...

whoa! tripple post! check out the [edit] button or the [quote+] option on the bottom of the posts bud ;)

anyhow, I'm still curious myself if most ppl consider it a KS if you kill something that someone else has aggro from, or if a more "purest" view is its only KSing if you *hit* the same monster while not in a pty.

The way I see it, other than potential rudeness, you arent really harming anyone if you simply attack a monster that is aggroed on someone else that they have not hit yet. To me it becomes "stealing" when you hit the monster they have hit coz that reduces the exp for them.

Otherwise, what are you really "stealing"...aggro? That seems silly as its sorta part of the game.

My general rule of thumb is...don't interfere unless asked.

If I happen to have a few monsters around me attacking me, I'm taking damage from them. I'm investing pots/stones into repairing that damage. If someone comes along and takes one of the "extra" ones attacking me, I've lost that investment of stones/pots by way of losing the return, the EXP/drops. If I have aggro, they're mine. Get your own.

good point!

This is the best argument I've hard for the aggro-based KSing!

to me, yes

If they're freshly spawned and not attacking the other person and you pull the aggro first (by attacking it, snearing it, whatever...) I think its fair game.

That is a very good view and is what I was looking for here. The only half hearted argument is to that is you can heal hp/sp for free with housing.

To me, if you have haven't hit it, it's not yours.

I hvnt got time to read the whole thing, so i may hv missed a few post.. but my response...

Like Dezza said.. why dont you take another one if there's plenty around? I pulled the mobs ON PURPOSE so i can fight the things i need while they're available..

I may have fought through many mobs to get what I need, and here you are, comes and take wat i've fought other mobs to get..

the mob is hitting ME, I am tanking it, i'm wasting HP/SP/stones for THAT mob that you're about to take..

How is that fair?

Clerics cannot pull, we go in and we aggro a bunch of mobs...

I'm not your meat shield... I've planned to take 5 orcs out of the bush to avoid the pinkies.. why should u be allowed to take a shortcut and steal my orcs just because you're a archer/mage/fighter?

If the mob is on someone else and you take it, many consider that kill stealing.

You can be either greedy and take all the mobs you can, or move to a different spot and hope no one invades.

I am never a fan of people who says spots aren't claimable.

Now that sounds reasonable enough..