Mage=Meatshield... uh no
 

First off....

I.AM.NOT.A.MEATSHIELD!

Apparently lately the purpose of a mage has changed...

Its not how much damage they do.... its how many hits they can take. The other day, I was basically called a crappy mage because I don't have END gear and I don't +9 all my armor <.< I'm sorry, but peoples standards (especially my level group) are getting too damn high now-a-days. I really wish Outspark would get the tanks another mock, then there wouldn't be such an issue. I'm a mage... a damage dealer. I should be worrying about my classes specialty, damage. Not how much TR trumpies I can tank.

Seriously, if to be a good mage I have to have END gear and +9 it all, I have to be made of money... actual cash and in-game cash. And if thats good... then heck, I'm going to be a crappy mage. Thats just too high of standards. Messed up really.

Mages are damage dealers, not meat shields.

Lol this applies to my mage as well. I have to tank instead of the fighters since a majority of them die too easily in aoe, but I will definitely run into problems when I outlevel my +9 armors. Mock cd really could use some tweaking.

Both Mock cd and the ammount of aggro it takes could use some serious looking at.

I don't think it's really about the CD but to strengthen its effect. It's pretty obvious Mages' attacks are a LOT stronger than what Mock can pull off.

Just last night I met a 51 Mage who had def that was really close to what I had. He told me he can tank if I can't keep aggro... then why don't you just keep on duoing with your partner? I am a (almost) full END build with END gear and +8 shield. o__o C'mon now... it's becoming a tad bit ridiculous. All the Mages are looking for END gear... they wouldn't even buy high INT wand/staves now.

I have started looking for high END equip. simply because I do pull agro so much and die so quickly. It is annoying. I know that it is not the fighter's fault, it is simply because my damage is pulling it off the fighters. So, I am trying to give me a chance to live if I take a few hits. But, I do not TRY to tank, it just happens. :(

I would be more than content to be able to hit the mobs without pulling agro. In order to get anywhere with Mages, it is almost a necessity to have BoT.

If you dont have END Armor when you know your gonna be pulling some major agrro then you better get used to people saying that. All DD's at higher levels should have some kind of END based armor. Upgrading it is not hard. You can easily have an enhancer do it for you.

In our guild we have our own enhancer and we help each other look for good armor/weapons for each other.

If your having trouble finding some kind of armor just ask me and i can look around or keep an eye out for it. If you need an enhancer i can probably get you one.
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One word Scrolls?

I think more of the problem is, the perception of what a Mage is now supposed to be able to do.


Simply put, even if you deal monstrous amounts of damage, in the 7x bracket on Teva, if you don't get Hp extenders, +9 defensive END equips and are able to tank multiple mobs in TR, you're incomplete/crappy....

But some people might not be able to afford paying an enhancer or buying the stuff from the CS. They also might not be able to afford buying the prices marked in-game for the high END armour. It shouldn't be that we need this or that we need that. I can play my fighter all day long and not require ANY CS items or even any enhanced armour. Why should I have to on my mage?

Uhh then how the hell did you get to higher levels...if you cant afford stuff. You dont need CS items or to pay the CS you pay someone else...

is your fighter 7X...I dont think so. but when he is you'll also need to get upgraded armor and stuff.

The perception has changed, but thats the point. Perceptions change and if you wanna stay on top you change with it. If not you get left behind. Simple as that.

I dont complain about dying all the time when tanks cant keep the agrro even if their 5 levels higher than me...They dont complain that I cant tank a whole room.

I suggest get a different party. Look for someone that respects the way you play.

Wow. So, if we cannot afford to pay someone to enhance all of our equip and we cannot afford to enhance it ourselves, we do not need to be a high level? Hmmm.... interesting.
So, if I am not playing with a fighter that is equal or above my level I need to find another party? Hmmm.... interesting.
Oh and everyone I party with has to be able to afford to upgrade their equip? Hmmmm..... interesting.

I do think so. Tanks should be able to hold agro and have better skills. Mages should have to spend a fortune in CS, when fighters do not have to spend anything in order to play the game. Mages shouldn't have to prepare themselves to be a tank. Tanking is not the mages job.

Also, just FYI, I can afford it. My argument was for the people who can't. But, I also see no point it upgrading my armour, never have and never will. I will upgrawde my weapon, but my armour can stay how I buy it.

If you couldnt buy all the lower level weapons or have gotten some extra money then you should get that high of a level. At high level if you still cant make money thats pretty sad...Intresting.

You cant make a comparison between two classes if your not comparing the same level bracet...Intresting.

Hmm Tanks are missing skills that allow them to keep agrro. Mages dont have to spend money they just have to deal with not having the best or fastest party or not spam their skills once their cooldown is gone so they dont take as much agrro. How about you let the tank take the agrro. Not like alot of morons that keep attacking even if they take all the agrro and know their gonna die.

Like I said if you cant make money at level 70 then thats pretty sad. If you dont upgrade your armor thats fine. I'm not telling you have to. Im just saying it would be beneficial for you and anyone you wanna party with.

^^ People EXPECT mages to tank. THAT is what this is about. Why should I have to Pay someone to enhance my armour, just so I can tank???? I am not a tank.
Mages are DDs, we are supposed to spam our skills. They should give the tanks better skills that that they are ABLE to hold agro.


Also, side not off of this discussion. Please watch the comments. By saying you are basically saying it to the mages that are posting in this thread, saying that we are tired of being killed.

Yes, at higher levels mages are the highest DD so they will take more agrro and HAVE to tank. So get END armor casue your the strongest Class in the game(Damage-wise).


Like I've ever seen you play....No I'm saying it to all the mages I see around the game that get killed and then complain casue they just wont stop attacking for a couple seconds for the agrro to go back to the fighter, who has higher def.
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Lol'ed at the way you thought i was unsulting you

Mmmm... <3 Yosei

Yeah, I've had other mages yell at me for being a INT/SPR mage, really with armor and stats.

+10END
+3xINT
+25SPR

Still, they go "You should have more END. You'll live longer."

People are viewing the mage as changing. They are expecting them to become much more like an archer, really after the CD time decrese to the Archer class. Maybe it's time to add DAMAGE to mage spells. They arer already really high, but the mock CD and Kick needs decresed, or mage damage should go up. I'd go with the former.

I, at least, make fun of my deaths in Spider. I actually yell at the tanks for not doing their jobs, and when I said this last night:

"We're not killing GS because I just tanked 2 of the 4 graverobbers, and I have 2 hearts left because the fighters couldn't mock"

I got yelled at, and/or congratulated heartily by the tank(s) who were bother over 66 >.>

Mages are DPS (Damage Per Second) not Mank, or Clanks, or any other odd combination of those.

Yosei FTW.

Lolz @ Mank x) I shuddered at the thought of people shouting "lf 70+ Mank for aoe" rofl.

It was a warning, because some mages, like the mages posting in this thread could take offense to it. Not meant as a joke. Being in the All The Rage section, means you have to watch what you say. As posted in the rules.

Crazy. I get called a "half-ass" tank all the time because I only have 557 defense. People ask for my end build, which is 40, and they're like "wtf? Why is your def so low?" Then I say I don't +9 my armor, and that gets a few "wtf"'s.

PvP with +9'd mages is hell.

Thats kind of my point. I shouldn't HAVE to build up my end and spend loads of sparkcash to be good. I'm not supposed to be the one taking the hits.

Not everyone on here is made of money. I had to use up like 20k+ in spark cash just to get my weapon to +9. I'm not going to do that to every little equip I get. I currently have 5g and 700s, I'm saving up for higher leveled armor. Last I saw, the cheapest I could pay in in-game cash for enhanced armor was 1g minimum for something my level, if I provide the stones. Theres also the costs of the stones which is ridiculously high for my level, then most likely, knowing my luck, I gotta buy the equip since everything I seem to find is crap.

I grind in Trumpy Remains for my leveling. I have used t3 scrolls in that place, with extenders, cleric buffs, and I still get owned. I'm sorry, but if I have to do more to live, I'm just going to accept it and die. It doesn't make me a bad mage. Heck... it shows I'm doing my job. I've had tanks request that I not use scrolls since I'm going to die anyways, and they don't want me to waste my money.

I just think its stupid that to be considered "good" in this game, I'd have to spend about $50+, about 10g+ and change my build to one similar to a fighters.

I've been playing this game for 8 months, my build has been rock solid since day one and people have not had a problem with it til now.

INT is useless. Enough said.

A 30 INT weapon only yields 3-5 bonus damage. The reason END has so much emphasis is because it raises the mage's HP and Defense, which are the two lacking aspects to a mage. Each END point corresponds to 1 defense point; a +39 END level 70 chest armor, for instance, provides 82 defense + 39 + 105, which is 226 defense all by itself; nearly equal to the mage's base defense at that level.

That will be unnecessary when/if they improve mock.

No.No.No.No. >.>

Each END point is .5 DEF last I checked, especially if you empower on the skill points screen. (I'll SS when I'm done with homework and post to prove, "Pics or it never happened D:")
Which leads me into an offtopic rant on Dex vs End >.>
Essentially, a +30 END plate would only yield +15 DEF in freestat >.> (Again, "Pics or it really never happened")
SPR is more useful for a mage anyways, IMO. As Yosei says, it's worked thus far. Why change now? Cast more spells, comparative to take more hits, which will be better in the long run? All your doing is switching one stone for another, really. An HP stone for an SP stone. Apples are to Oranges.

Really, I think the only thing a mage needs is a (+) weapon. It adds to what they are supposed to do, damage. IT makes a significant difference, but it's still not a necessary, I went 50~58 without one just fine. >.>

And yes, END is more useful in Mage simply for giving HP. In terms of lacking something, Mage lack HP stones and HP the most, but the ample amount of killing power should make up for that, or the massive AoE/Damage per second skills once the mage increases to 60+ (Frost Nova/Fear/Inferno) It's possible to take a few hits, cast the AoE, and then stone, and spam spells, while every few seconds another 200-300 damage is dealed out increased on the spells you've casted (About every 2 Magic Missiles for me). For me, that tantamounts to about 1k damage in 3-4 seconds (500-600 for MM, 200-400 for FN). I duoed with a 59 Mage, and I'm 61, and we killed Giant Pixies, while they could only hit us once. We both only have +9 weapons, and she had a few cash shop items (maybe a crit dress, but I still have my tail >.> and a base 11% or so crit without it xD) It's all about the killing power, not the getting hit power.

And, +30 INT yields +36 Magic Damage out of character stat empowerment. 1 point for each +, and +1 for every 5 >.>

God D: I'ma write a stats guide D:

This is funny...go say that to any capped mage or B.K or KFiesta and they will laugh in your face. Oh and dont give me that this NOT B.K or KFiesta bullshit. We maybe missing somethings and have had some changes made but it is essentially the same. Its funny how people make judgements when the cup is half-empty when Outspark finally gets this game to where it should be END mages will S.O.L. A mage is a DD not a tank you can give it as much end as you want you'll jus gimp yourself in the one thing that mages are supposed to do well and no thats not tanking its dealing damage. When Outspark actually raises the cap to a decent level and you guys get to see the higher level areas please come back and tell that story.

This whole situation has one solution and its not for every mage to run and get +9 End gear. If the Devs would take another look at mock and adjust the cooldown and the amount of agro it actually draws this would all be fine. But hey Outspark has been class-balancing for months right? And actually never really done one thing in terms of that.

The shirt:

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/4753/shirtgf2.png

Note: NPC shirt is 4 defense less, at 78.

Stats with NPC shirt:

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/9779/npcshirtxu6.png

Stats with +24 END shirt:

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/4...ndshirtha8.png

587 - 28 - 4 = 559.

Therefore, each END point equals one defense point.

Furthermore, whereas the window damage may display a bonus of 36 damage, in actuality it has been proven numerous times by various unconnected individuals disproving the theory that INT makes a difference. Ultimately, the damage bonus is so insignificant for mages that INT is not of necessity in order to inflict damage.


Then explain why when two mages of equal level, with one with 100+ INT stats in armor and equipment yet only does 30 or so more damage. I may be wrong with my statistic on the bonus damage, but 30 damage itself is insignificant truly insignificant if you sacrifice defense and health for it. I'll agree that Outspark has not adjusted correctly; consequently, as of now, INT is of little importance, not lacking.

EDIT: I myself am a full INT mage. My point of reference is on armors and weapons, not stat empowerments. There seems to be a spot of confusion on that.

This is a cool topic.

Not just mage, but archers are also pulling all the aggros off fighters too.

Totally agree with open post. If mage need to +9 all their gear and get all END gear, so they can TANK then, what's the point of having a fighter?

I think the problem here is fighters lost their tanking power, making their class useless. Regarding Mages should hold back their fire to stop pulling aggro, lets have at look at skill cooldowns:

Fighters:
- Mock is like 25 sec
- Devestate 20 sec
- lv 60 fighter AOE skill has a cool down of 3 mins!!

Mage:
- Magic Burst - 5 sec cool down
- Frost Nova - I dont know :p

Archer:
- AOE Poision - 7 sec?

Mages could do at least 5 AOE for the time that a fighter could do only 1-2 Mock/Devestate which is like.. weak... if mage/archers have to hold back their fire so they dont pull aggro then... heck.. u'll have a very SLOW AOE party...

So yeah, i think this is part of the skill balance issue as well, fighters became pretty useless from lvl 60+ coz they could only hold aggro for about 2 sec.. then all the mage, archer and even clerics are pulling all the mobs off them.. they cant do anything for another 20 sec...

Every class in Fiesta has their own job, is pretty well defined, Fighters are given the built to tank they should have more skills to help them keep aggro, while mage/archers does all the dmg...

Mage/Archers are damage dealers, they should only need to +9 their weapons (if anything needs to be enhanced at all), clerics / fighters can enhance their armour/shield... to amplify the ability for each class to do their own job..

So who are those people that are complaining that Mage should have END gear and tank too? Is it the cleric? Is it the Archer? Is it the Fighters? (Probably the cleric LOL!) But seriously, If mage could tank and do the dmg, then we dont need Archers and Fighters.

Frost Nova's default cooldown is 15 seconds.

However, as general consensus goes: archers are unwanted. If you offer a grind party in TR a choice between an archer and a mage, a majority of the time that party will take the mage, if you discount all external factors except experience per hour efficiency.

Have you noticed how more and more duos are cropping up? Except for TR, duos are becoming a lot more common nowadays. The need for tanks and fighters has gone down in the upper level community. An example is the TR requests. Tanks find it tough to get a party, as do archers if there are mages around. I haven't seen any problems with clerics; there seems to be a shortage of 7x clerics at times. Mages can get parties rather quickly.

...

There's a difference, statwise, between Armor Stats and Empowerment Points, I've just checked, and did the math. Def on Armor=1point END+ on stat/empowerment I believe is .5 Still checking though.

Good point, if only fighters to enhance something that will amplify their mock! (like how mages enhance their weapon to amplify power...)

Are there any more mock skills after lvl 60?

Yeah, and I hate to see a mage/archer die within seconds coz I was there healing the tank, then suddenly i had to switch my healing target, but i could never heal in time...


Do we need to start a thread on the official forum telling them to increase the mock power?! keekek

I dont think mages of today are into spamming skills at far distance as a DD anymore, they want more action to be tanks.
If the mages today are turning into what I said, why even spam magic, just get an str wand or staff and become a str mage to hit with minimal use of magic if they want to be a tank so bad.

Surely this is a typo, yes? Be more like the Archer class? What does that even mean? Do DoT poisons? Have Nature's Protection? Do about HALF as much DAMAGE? Can't find AOE parties?

I'm pretty sure the last thing Mage spells need are more damage. The mage spells are already doing an insane amount of damage and I don't know how increasing mage damage will help you draw less aggro.

Anyway, the main problem is still with Fighter's Mock. It fails.

Thank god for Nature's Protection.

I think kFiesta has like 4 Mocks total. I know three, but I think they recently added another. I'll check later if I remember... 20, 55, and the 60+'s.

I dont mean kFiesta or another version.. i mean us...

i know cleric's have Heal 11, 12, 13 etc after level 60 on BK or kFiesta... but Outspark didnt give it to us...

so i was wondering if Fighters get any new mock upgrades after lvl 60...?

Ohhhh.

There might be a 65-75 one?

;P, nice, those stuff could sell for really high soon since mages are going to become a fighter but not creating a fighter.

Nope. It's only 20 and 55 from what I saw. :/

I don't mind tanking time to time. But no... its not my goal to tank.