Petition: Falcomist's ban
 

For those who would like to post in this thread, I do ask that there should be no flames towards any of the guilds, or the banned players.


Yes, I did read the other thread and that Falcomist wanted the thread closed. But as of now, his submited ticket was declined, and I have heard that his account is still under investigation. As of right now, this is the only way I could think of that would help him.

Here is what really happened. [Yes, I fail in taking screenshots, you can say I have no "proof", but the truth is the truth, I have no reason to lie. There were people at the scene of the war, if you'd like, you can ask them. Existance being one that wasn't involved in the war or any of it.]

Vendetta warred Might_Army. Reason being an incident that happened in Abyss. In the Dungeon of Abyss, a few guildmates were attacked while grinding. They asked, "Why did you attack us?", the answer was, "Because we can for a room." During this attack, one of our guildmates lost experience, and scrolls, which isn't that big of a deal I guess, as both of these can be gained back, but it was the immaturity of the guild that caused anger and later, a war. As some of you may know, if you are killed by a player, you do not lose experience, but if you are killed by a monster (the monster taking the last hit), which is the case here, you do lose experience. Although there is no rules in Abyss, or any of the battlefields, I do believe that it is common courtesy to go by "first come, first serve", unless you're party can't take the whole room, which our guildmate's party did. (Atleast, this is the generation I grew up in.) Do you honestly kill another party just because you have more people in you're party, along with no monsters attacking you, JUST to get a room to grind in? This is basically the same as warring for a grind spot. (Yes, they did try a few times to get the room back, but was repeatedly killed, eventually, they gave up and logged off.) Many of our guildmates were angry hearing that they were killed for a grinding spot in Abyss, and so was Uchiha_Itachi and Falcomist. Later during the night, we warred. Mighty_Army ran off towards Forest of Mist, and Vendetta members couldn't attack. Mighty_Army never asked for the war to stop in any case, and started calling names towards Vendetta. This also includes speaking in a different language (Spanish) at the same time in normal chat, when they could have spoken in guild chat. So being people who don't speak/understand Spanish, we took it as insults. Falcomist and Uchiha_Itachi being at the scene saw this, and knowing what happened to a good friend (our guildmates who were attacked for a grind spot), they got upset, and said things that were out of the line. With this, I have heard that Mighty_Army was jailed, and Falcomist and Uchiha_Itachi were permanently banned without any warning. I have seen some of the Might_Army members roaming around freely without any punishment (or maybe a day in jail) despite saying things as well. Yes, both sides, Mighty_Army and Vendetta, along with their friends Falcomist and Uchiha_Itachi were all at fault for getting into an argument.

In the screenshots shown by Elcuau:
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...eenshot038.jpg
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...eenshot037.jpg
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...eenshot035.jpg

None of these screenshots show racist comments in any way that should result in a permanent ban. In wars, trash talks are common. Especially if theres a huge gap between the losing side and the winning side. If there is an argument, theres faults on both sides. Not just one. If one side gets permanently banned with no warning, and the other gets jailed or even no punishment, both trash talking, I find it rather unfair, but I guess this isn't just my view, its about everyone's view.

Having this said, is it really fair to Falcomist to be permanently banned, with no warning, for defending friends? Is it fair how one side gets jailed, and the other gets permanently banned?

With this in mind, I'd like to start petition for Falcomist to be unbanned. Or even to have a lesser punishment as I believe a permanent ban is too severe.

I thank you for reading this long post. And taking the time to vote.~

Edit:
If you do choose to vote, could you please put your reasons as to why you voted this. This would also help the petition as I accidentally chose anonymous... >.<

Edit: Yes i miss read poll

Eek. Yes was for him to be permanenly banned. >.<

uhh, I think you misread the poll Zwiv.

Yeah i did....Hmm nvm opposite.

Would you like me to change yours zwivix?

Yes pls ^^ thx

K done

Well, after reading through your post, one thing I have to say to you:

Indentation please. XD Walls of text are horrible to read.

Anyways, well...While its nice that players exhibit politeness in battlegrounds, the whole purpose of battlegrounds is that they are made for PK, so when you go in there, that's the risk you take.

Is it right for a party bigger than yours to take the room from you that you've been in?

Yes. They have every right to try and take it, because essentially, if battlegrounds was meant for everybody to be full of sunshine and flowers, it would not be available to PK in it. The heightened experience and drop rates + PK are to promote player competition. If you can't deal with others attacking you for your spot, then you shouldn't be in abyss in the first place.

Now, about falco and uchi being banned -

I personally don't think racist remarks should have been said, and I think that they deserve a punisment for them, but i do believe that perma-banning is a little more than necessary, especially when others have done worse and have not even been reprimanded at all for it. Maybe a couple weeks to a month of being banned, but permanent is overkill.

I really hope a petition would change things since banning Falco for racism was wrong as he didn't make any racist comments. I don't think however it will because I dont think Outspark will own up to its mistake. If it does start just let me know where to sign however :D.

So very true.

Past experience with their failure to aknowledge that there was a compatibility issue with XTrap is proof enough.

I'm going to have to agree with Omie. Although I think perma-ban is a little harsh, especially for a first offense.

O-mie maybe right about uchi's ban going along with the guild lines but what about Falco? unless I skipped a line in screenie he used some vulgarities but didnt say anything remotely racist.

Voted no.

I just can't justify banning someone for trash talking during a guild war. Although if there were racist remarks... then a severe punishment, but perma-banning is a little over the top.

And as for killing a group for a room in BG?

Yes. By all means. They give über drops, über exp, and über spawn rate, while nerfing the mobs, and 2x or 3x'ing their health, to help the player level... implementing the PvP factor was obviously put there for a reason. If you want it bad enough to kill someone for it, then you go right ahead. If you get dead, then I guess you better not go back for more ;)

i vote falco shouldnt because he was sticking up for his friends and like
if a player is going to say somthing mean to a nothere player ovb its going
to come right back at u and if u dont like go play ur own game by ur self
its not right to report somone wen u did the same thing and over a room
in pvp thats the dumbest thing ive ever herd :(

In Outspark's defense, here is a section from the beginning of the TOS, which everyone must agree to in order to play, read or unread:

Outspark may take any action and impose any penalty we deem necessary to discourage and punish any violation of these Terms or any other illegal or inappropriate conduct, all without prior notice or warning. The determinations as to whether a violation has occurred and who is responsible for such act are solely within Outspark's discretion, and are based on what we deem best for the community. By using the Outspark Service, you agree that you will be bound by Outspark's determination as to whether a violation has occurred and any penalty we choose to implement.

As for banning Falcomist, those screenshots don't show proof of any racist comments but I'm sure there could be more to the story. Either way, helping a friend does not justify crude behavior. =/

And no I didnt vote, because I wasn't there when it all happened so I have no right to say anything lol. I wish him good luck ^^

Well, racism is a sensitive issue, and Outspark has every right to ban a player for it. Not only do they have the right, they have the responsibility to keep racism out of this game. I don't think anyone disagrees with Uchi's ban for his racist comments. I do, however, think every one of us should reserve judgement either for or against this decision until all the evidence is available. Outspark obviously has screenshots of Falco saying SOMETHING racist. Certainly the screenies in this thread don't prove anything. Hopefully the person who filed the formal complaint will share the entire chat log with the community.

As for people saying he was justified because he was defending his friends...what planet do you live on? The opposing members didn't break any rules in the battleground, and even if they had, that doesn't give the wronged players and their friends the right to break even more rules. War them, 100% OK. Yell at them, fine. Swear at them, EULA violation which is selectively enforced. Make racist insults...PERMABAN. It's as simple as that. People "defending their friends honor" is how 10 year old kids get murdered in gang crossfire. I live in Chicago, and I see it on the news every day.

I think those screenshots are the screenshots the complainer turned in. So based on those screenshots Falcos banned is'nt justified. Racism has been going on in Fiesta since CB and on more then occasion Outspark has been made aware of it. They acted on these screenshots without doing a proper investigation which is why most people are bothered about this. If people dont say something about this what will Outspark not handle correctly next time? I'm sure if you were in Falcos situation you'd want a proper investigation done not some half-arsed ban by the GM's.

I hope you come back to post and not only in this thread bolsz1.


You're one of the few who's going against the general response and had a plausible point.

The only thing I saw that falco might have gotten reprimanded for was the "I'll rape them all" Comment, because in the ToS its stated that derogatory speech such as "Violent sexual acts" or whatever, those are against too. But a ban for that? People have said and DONE much, much worse.

What happened to the others who were supposedly banned for defending Falco?


Was that even true? If so, I don't see how that is justified, especially if defending is all they did.

People have said and done much worse with better screenshots and was reported to ALL the GMs and nothing was done. I still have the screenshots. :) If Outspark is going to enforce a rule, then they need to enforce that rule for all situations that revolve around those same circumstances. If a perma-ban was good enough here, then it should be good enough for other situations that I know were reported and NOTHING was done.

Voted absolutely no, he shouldn't have been perm banned.

Trying to justify either side in the events that led to this whole thing (the abyss etc) is fruitless, not only because of what was said about the battlegrounds being PK-intended, but also because it takes two to tango. Also, stuff like this happens all the time. Handle every separate situation ingame in the same way, and you will end up banning like half the population, if not more.

Having said that, my opinion on this remains the same: don't aim to achieve a robot-like system that SEEKS out words in the chat and then bans the person in whose chat line the word is in. Handle each case as separate, look at the context. Pulling the "any kind of second chance is showing we allow it" is unjustified in my opinion because you're NOT allowing it, what you are allowing is room for human error. Same thing happens after being warned, OR if the first offense is blatantly clear abuse, (meaning there can be no room for speculation that the offender had any other reason to do it than just for the sake of harassment) then go for it, let the banhammer swing.

no.

given the info i have seen a month or so in jail would seem time enough. With that kind of time the agressors would be able to reflect on the incident, how it came about and how to make better choices in the future and any agrieved parties would have the chance to cool off.

perhaps they would be able to send a vetted appology message to offended peeps, even if it only says i dont regret the argument just the way i chose to express myself.

we have to leave room in life for people to vent when they need to, but equally you cant just say what you like and expect no reprocusions.

so i say give these guys a chance to learn from their mistakes!

Outspark have made Falco into some sort of "example" and scapegoat basically... judging by what they have banned him on, they should therefore ban half the server, since they have all said similar words in the heat of conflict. I'm not saying that it is right to say these words, what I am saying is that he was not the first and certainly not the last person to say them.

Many higher levelled players know the personality of Falco, as do those in his Guild. Bleh, seems crazy to make an example of him, of all people.

Alright...

-takes the microphone-

I have voted, no, Falcomist and Uchiha_Itachi shouldn't be banned.
Although I'm not a friend of theirs, and they do not know me as well, but no is the right answer...

-pause-

You f**king crazy?!?! *PERMANENT* ban???? isn't that enough bulls**t to take? I don't even think they should be sent to jail, what more to ban them permanently... I mean, for what??? Dissing the opposition's race? C'mon, everyone has the damn balls to do that, I mean why wasn't I banned? And all others who've passed through this s**t... Them mexican latinoes, or whoever the heck they are (as what the first post told me) talked s**t in their language, why not get a translator and see what they said? Ban their accounts as well?

EDIT:
HERE, READ THESE LINES!!!

And~

If you think YES should still be the answer...

Come suck my Uncle Tommy's balls >_<

SerodinSilver: That's such a well thought out and masterfully articulated argument, I can't believe you don't have the entire community agreeing with your every word.

Aerythia: Yes, Falco was an "example". No, he was not any kind of scapegoat. He was banned because he allegedly broke a big rule in a very public way, and Outspark was, presumably, forced to act. Obviously Outspark can't "ban half the server" because they'd have no client base. What they can do is exactly what they have done - make a public example of someone so as to discourage others.

Walnut: While you do have a point that a permaban may have been harsh, that's not your decision to make. We all agreed to the EULA, and that says Outspark, not the community, decides all punishment for rules violations.

+Tequila+: Even if those are the screenshots that were turned in, Outspark does log all chat that happens on their servers. I know this for a fact, as I had a very long discussion with Dakkon trying to get back an item belonging to a guild member of mine that was scammed away from her by a fake enhancer. Because of these chat logs, and player trade logs, Dakkon took the item away from the scammer and gave it to me, then permabanned the scammer's account.
My point is, the evidence that was delivered to and, presumably, gathered by Outspark may never be presented to the community. Outspark is in no way obligated to do so. This issue is between Falcomist and Outspark. I think the only way we will see such evidence is if Falcomist chooses to disclose it.

Ivramire: Thanks for the encouragement. I've always enjoyed playing devil's advocate in heated situations. That said, I don't think you understood my comparison. I wasn't comparing killing people in real life to killing people in a computer game. There, as you pointed out, is no comparison. I was comparing rule breaking and how it escalates out of control and needs to be ended with swift justice before there is unreparable damage.
If Outspark only concerned about their bottom line, the outcome of this incident would have been much different. Uchi and Falco were both cash shop users, and as such would have been given a slap on the wrist. The decision to ban them actually HURT the profit margin.

Again, I am in no way, shape, or form saying that Falcomist's ban was justified. I'm saying that we don't know the circumstances of what happened. We've heard only a very limited portion of one side of the issue. The screenshots in this thread have Falco saying some insulting, but not overly racist things. Perhaps Uchi's stigma of blatant racism enveloped Falco as well, or perhaps Falco said things equally as racist that weren't captured in a picture. In either event, we don't know.

Just for the record, I voted yes to the ban, but not because I believe he should have been banned. I did it to express my divergent viewpoint.

Thank you...

Holy f**k... Logs?! Once they find everything with SerodinSliver in it... *hides under table*

...

*comes back up* does that include whisper?!

Cool.

I voted no. I didn't know him, but I've seen the screenshots; I can almost see why Uchiha_Itachi was banned, but nothing Falcomist did was really bannable. Like everyone else, I think that jailtime would have been enough for both of them. :P Besides, I've seen much worse happen with no punishment whatsoever.

Voted no as well, I do not see any comments by Falcomist (don't know him) that should result in a permanent ban. I've been in many conflicts myself and every single time there will be insults flying around. If we apply the same rules to all of these cases then EVERYONE (close to anyways) should be banned. Also, it takes more than one hand to make a clap you know...if the enemy doesn't say anything then they would probably just fight him and go on their merry way during a guild war and nothing else would happen.

Voted no.


The whole situation is retarded. Im not taking sides in any way, but from a third person perspective, the punishment does not fit the crime. its like putting a 5 year old on death row for shooting his neighbors window out with a slingshot.

SnakeEyes told me that wasn't possible... because item information wasn't stored...

I got scammed by fake enhancer too >.>;

They have logs. They just don't know how to read them. =P

Pretty much anything that happens on a computer is logged somewhere. It's just a matter of how long the logs are kept, and how to read them. It can be a very tedious process.

Outspark doesnt know how to use the logs :D or doesnt even have them. That was proven months ago by a former Gm doing whatever he wanted whenever he wanted. Falco was'nt banned because a GM read the *supposed chat logs*. He was banned because a GM logged onto the forums and decided the D-word was racist :D. The OP on the Outspark forums didnt even extend the chat are so the how conversation could be seen he just took screenies of a certain area.

a perm ban is a bit much especially if it's his first offense

Okay so after waiting for a whole week about this concern. All of my friends that have sent emails and complaints about this issue have all been ignored. Not a single email was replied back or a complaint. Basically they are ignoring the issue. I sent one final email to Skiing and that I hope I get a response. If they are just ignoring everyone of my friends from Teva and furthermore ignoring this issue. Im very well perm banned. In that case ill be sure to continue making my final video.

Wow gay.

This is obviously an issue that needs to be looked at.

And what is this final video?

It'll most likely be made of epic win.