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Strength as a stat, fails.
Strength as a stat overall fails, and I'm quite sick and tired of hearing how 'amazing' it is from fighters or clerics who refuse to heal/tank in KQ's simply because they believe they're doing the best damage. For starters, I don't know where they get these assumptions from, but a 2x full strength fighter or cleric will only deal 20 something more damage then any build that doesn't invest in strength at all. Strength only adds ONE damage per point as of now, and that just seems too insignificant to pass up survivability/spell spamming for. This is my opinion and I apologise in advance to those I may offend with it. But seriously, giving yourself an insignificant damage boost whilst giving up the possibility of completely negating an attack (block with endurance) or doubling your own damage (critical with spirit) just seems silly.
I understand that strength can be useful for those first 20 levels, but it's benefits waver from then on. You'd be cringing at the mediocre bonus damage you get from it at the higher levels, and wish you'd invested those points more wisely. That 20 damage could have easily have become: - 20 spirit for that 4.0% critical (DOUBLE DAMAGE PEOPLE) and 100 SP or - 20 endurance for the 100HP, XX Defense (someone clear me up about this), and 2.0% block (BLOCKS SPELLS, HURRAH). And with my recent experiments with dexterity, the evasion is pretty nifty. People don't like dexterity as a stat because they don't know exactly how much they'd need to consistently dodge something. However, eventually the numbers will become apparent, and dexterity won't be looked down upon so much. All in all, I believe strength fails on any character, topic open for discussion. |
I agree to an extent the damage bonuses aren't exactly great especially during the lower levels. But later on the damage bonuses become more and more noticeable. One thing you DID FORGET TO MENTION is the bonus damage every 5 points of STR. About 25 str increases your base damage by 30 do the math with 100 str and you'll notice how much more damage you'll dish out.
Full str builds are kinda condemned to fail Imo still characters will need the other stats. End though..now THATS useless stat unless you got a shield. |
yeah every 5 stat points isnt worth it, might as well just go with something else
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You put up a very valid point with the str bonuses i see what you mean. What we have here is some stat imbalances
Let me be the first to say as a warrior 75% of us don't like shields or focusing on tanking but it doesn't make useless. As a 2h axe fighter myself i can still tank well enough to protect my party mates and in KQs. Its not just their stats but how prepared they are (how much end they increase, scrolls, hopefully a cleric with a defense buff) I still stand by my reasoning that end is useless unless u have a shield. Like you said at lvl 75 people would be dishing around 1000 damage a hit 500 hp won't help no better like str will help damage. The extra defense too is very minimal. I got about 13 end which gives me 7 defense. How much more if it was around 75 or 100? When everyone is dishing out 1000 damage like you said, the extra defense is of minimal help too. Its too early to judge about weapon damages. But from what i can say, axes DOES not do as low damage as a 1handed sword the damage difference is very noticeable even compared to 2handed swords. 1 handed swords and 2 handed swords seem to be similar i'll agree at the lower level, but this is the loewr level. the number values are very low and it will take much later in the game to see the differences between the weapons when the damage values are much more larger and distinctive |
There lot to say about Stfye's observation about the weapons. (Andy if i'm correct anyway USES 2H SWORD)
For one he says the axe damage is inconsistent.. While it is to the axe's discredit i must agree its true, its more viable with spr builds because of heavy skill crits. There is NO COOLDOWN between skills so the 1.5 attack speed does not come into play when you are spamming your skills. Not to mention he also states the axe's is much better for dealing damage against bosses. The axe is almost much better at cleaving enemies with higher defense. The damage of the axe is inconsistent but its usually very high. The 1 handed sword on the other hand is consistently low. 2handed swords take the middle ground between the weapons...and well it sucks IMo too. |
I really wouldnt recommended full dex builds
Archer's damage is already so low and evasion although handy is unreliable. Unlike block theres no % of it suceeding its all based on your evasion in comparison to thier aim |
Full anything fails, though that makes me a hypocrite for being a full SPR Fighter.
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Just realized something for the damage increases... for every 1 point of str you get 1 damage. for every 5 points the bonus is...well.. 1 extra point :D
ya... Question.. while it IS bonus damage...we are increasing the stat nevertheless shouldn't our damage increase a little more since were raising the stat? |
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Never seen that before...does it work? Lol. |
I would imagine it is really since you can't really go wrong with a fighter
1.Str= too low of damage bonus 2. 3nd Useless unless your using a shiled 3. Dex- we really don't need this THAT much for aim. I haven't seen anyone perfom a viable evasion warrior build. Spr helps compensate for alot 1. helps compensate the fighters main weakness, Low magical defense 2. The critical rate increase is actually very high, comebine this with an axe and you'll crit VERY hard. |
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as a cleric, IMO, we benefit more from SPR the ammount of SP we have does only matter when we use an SP stone. the more max sp, the more it recovers. not that impotant, may save some cash but thats all magic def, yes please. mages still hurt a lot :) crits, add to your dmg. not as frequently as some fixed points, but it does nonetheless. still, im pretty sure you get more dmg from the str bonus. my build is 2-3end:1spr btw |
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Well I'm a 1h sword user, the thing with criticals is that you need to get as many hits in as possible to notice the benefits of being full SPR.
2h Axes and swords, though they give 1-2% higher critical rate their attack speed and accuracy overshadow the crits. |
@ Tequila: Since we're on the subject of clerics, I'd like to say a few things.
First off: Yes, Divinity is good for SP, but it is ONLY good for SP. By putting points into SPR, you increase your chances of landing critical hits and your magic defense. Sure, you could keep leveling and keep adding points into STR, but you're already getting a lot of it each level you gain. Someone said before that for the difference between a STR build and a non-STR build to be noticeable, you'd have to be a MUCH higher level (even though that person was applying this to Fighters, it still applies to Clerics as well). By that level, you have denied yourself a great amount of extra SP and magic defense. Clerics can't dish out damage if they can't survive, and at some point, you will need to survive magic attacks better. Furthermore, you can conserve stones by having to use them less frequently (since stones heal based on a percentage and you'd have a lot of extra SP to spare before you had to use one). Since SPR = magic defense, SP, and critical rate, adding points into it will increase your survivability, durability, versatility, and damage. Meanwhile, STR will give you damage and only that. Summary: Clerics benefit more from SPR. It helps them survive magic damage, increases their own damage through higher critical rates (albeit by chance), and gives them more SP to spam Heal and buffs with (when you're partying, you find yourself concentrated more on the welfare of your party members than how much damage you're putting out, if you're fighting at all). Divinity may be able to cover max SP, but it is not to be used as a substitute for SPR simply because it doesn't have the same effect. To put it simply, you may argue that a STR/END build will be more powerful than a SPR/END build, but keep in mind what you are denying yourself by getting STR instead of SPR - you sacrifice further endurance for damage, when you could retain that damage and STILL be able to last longer in battle. At first, people thought clerics would be more efficient for battle than support because "OMG GIANT HAMMERS AND HEAVY ARMOR". This is not the case. Clerics play the largest support role in parties regardless. They make viable soloists, but training is more efficient in a party later on and your party will expect you to be healing and buffing them more than fighting (unless the mobs are weak enough, in which case they probably won't mind). Your party will count on you to support them the entire way - if you can't survive, can't last very long, or constantly run out of SP, what good will that do for the party? Furthermore, you seem to advocate 2:1 END/STR, yet you less strongly recommend 2:1 STR/END and definitely do not support a pure STR build. Why deny yourself an extra point in END or SPR every 3 levels when the extra points in STR will not make a huge impact until much later? I respect your point of view, but I do not agree with it because I cannot comprehend why adding STR instead of SPR is more practical. |
Actually, I take back what I said about STR for a cleric making an impact later on - it will not. By that time, you should have enough base STR to solo things efficient for you. In parties, you will almost never make use of your STR, because you usually only party for mobs that are too hard for you to defeat alone.
Therefore, SPR for a cleric is not, as you say, "useless". Rather, it is more practical, and you will make better use of it in the long run. It compensates for any magic defense you may lack and significantly boosts your chances of landing a critical hit. It will also make for better conservation of SP potions/stones and allow you to stay on the field that much longer. |
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While the crits are slower to get, the have alot more power which leaves for a nasty suprise especially with an axe. Destrus pretty much got it.. |
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Edit: @Rok The difference in damage really isn't that much for me, I've tried contrasting between the three different weapons, the 1h sword works best for me. |
Wow all those maths made me go @___@".
Anyway, I've tried a full STR cleric before (not the whole way, maybe up to level 16 or 17) and I didn't like it at all. Easily dead, and I don't kill mobs faster enough even with all the STR, so I started adding END. So yes, full STR cleric doesn't really work (not for me anyway, I guess you'd need a lot of patience and money to raise a character like that..). After reading this topic makes me want to run into a wall though >_> I'll make sure I use that SPR/END build instead of going STR/END. I guess you can test which weapon is better by timing how long it takes for you to kill a mob on average with each weapon, that's what I do (not very good at all those maths, =P). |
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