Low levels in KQ....
 

The debate about whether low levels should join KQ.......

Inspired by a failed case of MD KQ last nite.........

So here's my story....

In MD last night, the group had about 4-5 clerics... 1 archer... 1 mage... 1 level 54 fighter.. and all the rest under lvl 50 fighters (hear the trouble?)

My party had the lvl 54 fighter, two lvl 48 fighters (one of them is Wacky) and the mage....

We got through all the mobs... had a few deaths at Robo... but still managed... went up to MD... here comes trouble...

My level 54 fighter was the main tank.... everytime he got feared it went to the archer... (who gets 1hit KO which is normal) the mage got d/c half way through and never came back... we had 1 archer DPSing.... ALL the rest of the low level fighters just sat around coz they get 1hit KO too!! (Except for Wacky, as a lvl 48 he can tank hits!!)

So we only had 3 ppl hitting MD..... -.-

The main tank had to scroll up expensive scrolls... both my fighters using pots and stones (coz it was impossible to heal 2 ppl at the same time) all clerics drinking up their SP pts for revive, buff and heal....

while all these low level fighters just sat around going "i cant do anything, i get killed"

in the end we failed coz we were doing so little dmg we ran out out of time killing it....

BOOOOOOOO.... 44 SP pots for me... all the HP/SP pots for my fighters.... a whole heap of scrolls... all gone to waste...

only coz we had too many lowbies who cant even get close to MD....

they really shouldnt join if they cant do anything!!!!

coz the ppl that can do something had to waste all our resources while the rest just sat around..... BOOOOOOOOOOOOO

well... the problem is we killed sooooooooo slowly the MD was hardly spawning the summons! LOL! i think it only summoned 2-3 times in the half an hr.... which they did kill those....

and u hv a point too loveless... mean stingy ppl!

ppl who said they can't do anything tends to not use their brain and turn noobs for some time

>_> ...A 50+ fightre unable to take more than 1 hit from md? I could live through its hits at level 48..... on my archer. >_>

Anyways - The thing about Kingdom quests, especially MD -

Low levels will join it because 1: honeying is not exactly doable. Secondly, if they weren't "Supposed" to be in it, they wouldn't be ALLOWED in it in the first place. :T

I dont see anything wrong with low leveled players joining KQs, since low leveled clerics can still heal. (and in the case of MD, they might have lv 1 endure)

I dont think its really possible for people who meet the minimum requirement to be unable to do anything, why cant they help to kill the weaker monsters? I think its more like they refuse to do so...

Although if i play a lower leveled character and people would rather expel me as soon as they see my level than have 1 additional member, then i dont see any point in playing.

Yeah I was able to tank a couple of hits from MD on my Archer too. Of course I have to have the scrolls and buff. :P

But even with that a Fighter has much more HP and Def than me. xD

I think i should've said... more specifically.. Low level FIGHTERS shouldnt go into MD... LOL!

Mages, archers, clerics can all do something in MD... (range heal and atk) but the annoying part is fighters can only just sit there and watch....

I must enforce a point that, not all lvl 4x fighters in MD are crap... look at Wacky and he'll prove u wrong... but the rest of them........ -.-

there werent many low monsters to kill... coz we're doing soooo little dmg that MD wasnt spawning them... (the few rare times that MD did spawn mobs, they did help kill it, so they're not exactly useless but... it still didnt help the progress of the KQ)

I think because some lvl 4x fighters are CAPABLE of doing the KQ... that's why they're ALLOWED..... but its those that are not capable that shouldnt be there~

i really think it helps if they get their lvl 50 armour 1st if they refused to scroll up


and yeah... MD's fire stink breath killed all of them in 1 hit.... i cant tank that hit either =/

Yeah omgg I've partied with a few 50+ tankers that can't tank! It really annoys me!! I have no idea why. I mean, wacky can tank at 48, why can't they? They don't die in one hit, but sometimes they survive with like 10 hp or something and then they get another blow from the MD and gg them.

What I find annoying in KQs are people who:

1. Don't scroll up when they should.
I am mainly talking about fighters for this. Pretty much what I said above. I've partied with this fighter (I can't really remember the level but it's 50+) who was the main tank. But he didn't scroll up. I think I've asked once or twice, but he never answered and I didn't have time bug him to scroll up since I was too busy healing. But gosh, if he had put on some scrolls, even just a T1 vit/shield, it would've helped me heaps. That extra 200 hp he could get would have saved his ass 8347897 times.

I was trying to keep him alive to the best of my ability but he still died heaps. This annoyed me because it wastes a lot of time reviving him and the dragon charges at other people when he's dead. If he scrolled up it would be heaps better!!

2. Doing something they're not supposed to, and neglecting their own class's duties.
Talking about clerics in this one. I hate it when I have to keep reviving a cleric because they go in and attack when it is not needed (i.e. we have enough dpsers). I mean, if they can tank hits and are still looking after their party, that's cool. But if they die in one hit, why go up to hit them?! It's not like our damages are great anyway! -sigh-

yeah, I know lower fighters used to get yelled at pretty harshly back in the day for being in MD.

I think though a lot of the lower ones are just unsure of what to do, it might be their first time in there. When I did my first one I was accompanied by a handful of friends who were all level 57-59, so they had me under their wing, and I was still like, ZOMG WHAT WHAT EEEEE D:

So I can imagine how chaotic it all must seem for people going in their on their first time. xD Just one of those things ya gotta deal with I guess!

But yeah, it does bug me profoundly when people in KQ don't do crap, and just stand there, or are like, "I Don't wanna waste scrolls, wah"

yeah well i think we were just unlucky to have about 7-8 fighters who are all "new"....

the thing was these fighters are not noob in a sense that they dunno wat to do or is stupid... (well apparently they were yelling orders and telling the tank wat to do when they cant do a thing... but i was too busy keeping ppl alive to see the chat)

they were just... not tankable!

I think if there were just one or two or 3 that couldnt do anything at MD.. i wouldnt hv wrote this... but hving 7-8 frustrated me~ i think i'll just put it down as being unlucky....

^ Ohh... this annoys me as well.

I know you don't want to die and lose scrolls or whatever but come on! D: Kind of makes you want to drag the mob trains towards them.

My personal views - Yes low-levels are allowed in there, but I still do not think that they are ready. Maybe the idea behind it was to get just one or two low levels in with a good group to show them the ins and outs. Unfortunately, sometimes you get a whole bunch of low-levels.
However, standing around doing nothing is not the way to go about it. I know I talked Patches into going when he was under 50 and after the 1st one, he said that he had no business being in there. And even though I told him that even if he couldn't hit the MD he could do mob-control, he felt that he would be better to wait until he could add more. He had an understanding of how it worked and what ot do, so after he hit 50, he felt better about doing them.
The ones that stand around doing nothing annoys the hell out of me and the ones that are shroomed up way ahead of the group - nothing good and dam well that with me being a mage and getting a head start on everyone else, that they were there the whole time - really annoys the hell out of me. If you are too low-level to take hits from the MD, at least be there for mob-control or you could even taunt the MD when he casts fear on the MT. This at least saves the DDs and the clerics from pulling the agro and you will get a rez.

...I remember back when this exact same issue was posted up by lafieru ages ago, and I was practically the only one who was supporting him then. :P

anyways, now that I've pretty much decided I won't grind anymore, I suppose I could do my part to help out the KQ'ers... it just so happens that lv60 is the MAX in MD. :3

Although i'm a fighter myself i do have to admit that the biggest idiots are either fighters or clerics.

In almost every type of KQ i been so far except KKP (king kong phino) i seen stupid fighters or clerics (fighters being dominant and winning by a huge marge)

Slime KQ

Fighters - they all attack the king slime head on, die in one hit than say OMFG cleric heal u jackass >_> after they get 1 hited :/
Clerics - many of them tend to heal only themselves than blame the fighter for not using pots >_< to stay alive saying "we both take damage i heal myself duuuuuh" that is when i think "your dam small damage won't make a difference so get in the back line and heal"



Mara KQ

Fighters - so many of them think taunt is useless >_< (appart from all the other problems)
Clerics - same problem



Mini Dragon

Fighters - tend to join kq in bulk than don't do anything >_< personally i wanna kill them when i see them doing that =(



Spider Assault

Fighters - i seen fighters go in the front line trying to play hero, they mock they die in 1 hit than they go "u fked up cleric y don't u heal me" >_< talk about stupidity >_<


The most stupid 2 things i ever heard are:

1. WHY the hell would i buy taunt, i mean what idiot would on purposely use it to get attacked when others can die instead >_< (fighter quote)

2. You have pots, you have stones, get lost you noob i'm not gonna heal u, i'm not gonna waste my sp to keep your sorry ass alive >_< (cleric quote)

GUESS WHAT both those things are quotes i heard on Epith on my short journey there >_<

Laughing
 

This whole thread made me laugh because I vividly remember being that useless fighter in MD kq. I was a great tank and runner in robo kq, I rarely lost, then I hit level 46....Mini Dragon KQ. I got through the whole kq with little to no trouble (robo did not have aoe at that point, thank god) THEN came the dragon. I knew I did not have to tank it, which I was very happy about, but wow that fire breath. I felt absolutely useless in that kq. I did it one time, then never did it again until I was sure i could take the hit from the fire. I am embarrassed to say that it was like level 51 before I could =P. But this was the days before greens and all +9 stuff I guess, so it is not too bad. I believe players were better back then xD but that is off topic. Now I am out of MD kq and into spider kq, and I am TOTALLY the fighter that Star described, I love being the hero tank xD. Anyone who has partied with me knows I don't usually die though >.> THIS brings me to one of my rages, clerics in spider kq who solo. I dont get it, really. Also i am raged because a person yelled at me the other day for not putting on scrolls while tanking. How much difference does a +29 def scroll make when you have 1100 def anyway, and how much difference does a +200 hp one make when you have 4500 hp? I mean really.

What I find really funny in this thread, is that Blaaaah's is expressing what the majority of us felt back when we were at the level 59 cap.

I was anti-low level too, after all its not fair to just classify a fighter of that range as a "dont-joiner" and not the others.


Furthermore, back then we didn't have +9 equipment, not that it would have mattered in the minidragon anyways.


I would like to take the time to point out that fighters have relatively low magic defense compared to other classes. The higher the level, the better the magic-defense, but its still not enough.

Furthermore, all "fire-breathing" attacks made by the dragon are magic-damage dealing. So, no matter how much armour a level 40 fighter has, it is a matter of how much HP he or she has to eat-up.

The only physical damage inflicted by the dragon is when he try's to crush you by dropping himself in a large AOE, stomp, or a snout-rub.


It's best that those fighters remain on the sidelines anyways. Exspecially in the case of the minidragon. Its better you dont have 1 or two people hitting the dragon who will only need a revive in a matter of sections, distracting clerics from healing the tanker(s), leading to a horrific incident once the dragon gets loose from a dead tanker.


The King Kong Phino is like a minidragon replica. The only difference is all attacks made by the phino are physical. This can be padded out with +9 equipment or shield scrolls (if you want to pad out minidragon damage you have to have a magic defense scroll.)

The only thing that gives you real trouble in the King Kong is the Ghost Slime. Magic damage eats right through whatever defense I have. Since I dont bring a stack of Vitality [2] or Vitality [3] scrolls wherever I go, he usually gets me in 1 hit if I dont somehow avoid his AOE.

LOL leona, your post made me crack up xD

I see that so often, fighters going "taunt is useless". We did a mara kq when I was low on my cleric and the ONLY tank there didn't have searing kick, so the bosses were so funny, going back and forth to everybody. We didn't fail though, magically!

And also in honeying too - fighters can be so stupid, though I know this kq rarely succeeds anyways, lmao. But I went in one with fullback, (no he's not the stupid fighter) and we had this elvel 49 fighter in the party, and he kept grabbing AT LEAST 25-30+ mobs at a time, and constantly died, and naturally he blamed the clerics for it, even though I was healing nonstop. xD So in the end we boycotted against him!

Yep yep. In the Honeying KQ - Don't pull more than you can devastate. When a tank devastates, it is the mages best chance to AOE, but if you dont stun all of them, then the mage pulls all the agro and then dies. After a few times of this, mage is tired of dying and quits AOEing. Mages AOE is somewhat crucial in Honeying.

we had ONE mage, and she kept dying so much xD I died a few times myself too ><

LMAO - I wish you had been around when the G____G members were trying to get in a successful Honeying. We had so much fun dying left and right. I would pull agro so much, all Blaaaahs did was rez me the entire KQ. And we never succeeded. :cool:

LOL!! I think i remember that thread! i was there going "It's fair for low levels to try too!!" but look at me now! the table has turned LOL!!

I think back then i've only experienced Robo... and since the level limit of robo is 33-45... it'll be too much to ask for ppl to wait till they're 40 to do Robo...

however... as MD is 46-60.... i think 50+ is the reasonable level to do MD...

Yeah that's true... but it was not 1 or 2 that will hit dragon and die.. it was like 7 or 8! and they all shroomed up they may as well be dead.... LOL

@Ukly - Robo didnt hv AOE?!?! Why did they add that in!!

it's sad when I hear through guild chat that one of our clerics had to be the main tank during a MD run xD

LOL!! at least she can clank!

i wanna be a clanker too but i dont hv enough defences....

I have enough defence on my wonderful pure END cleric! I think I have more than most pure STR or 25 SPR/rest STR fighters. Of course..I'm pure END, and my shield adds 15 END, and I have an END +11 ring...sorry this is getting a bit off-topic..



Anyways yeah I think they actually meant to have only a few low lvls ( a max of 2 in a party) to get exp, quests etc. done...but we find more and more low lvls joining in...I failed 3 robos straight last night :(. I'm never gettintg that robo kill lol.

There are actually a lot of people that never get that kill. However, if you look at the amount of exp you get for succeeding, all you have to do is complete 2 Robos and you more than made the same exp. With the 8xxx, plus all the exp you get by killing the mobs - it adds up to be more than 18,000.

That kinda makes sense, since clerics are like the 2nd class with the most END... also a STR fighter is likely to be a 2H fighter, so they wont hv the defence from a shield too.... but i have a feeling out END drops off after lvl 50... i'm lvl 57 now and i feel like i cant tank nothing...... :( (not in KQ anyway)

Yeah... Robo.... I died a lot less in robo once i reached lvl 40, but soon after 40 i got my robo kill, and the exp from KQ doesnt seem as significant anymore.... and with the high chance of failure... it sometimes doesnt seem worth it... that's probably why not a lot of 4x join Robo... and it means more chance of failure... XD

i'm sure u'll get ur robo kill... just try party up with archers and mage rather than clerics and tanks XD someone else can do the tanking while ur party kill it... sounds good? XD

It's not a major issue, but what sometimes annoys me (it's happened twice now - once in Mara and once in Gold Hill) is when the tank can't keep the aggro and the boss has come and killed me (as an archer) because my aggro has become greater than the tank's (who was still alive).

Still... shows how much archers rule :D

]



LOL that is just a proof your tank sucked not that your archer rux, no offence :).

XD also the tank needs to learn to kick often, not just when the boss runs off to an archer.... esp if the boss stuns the tank

this is maybe off-topic but im proud to say this

yeah ARCHERS RULES...

once i tank the boss in KQ Gold hill,.

._. I was only archer in a MD like the the week before easter weekend... not sure if same on with Hessah or not. Think we might have had mages... though so prob not.

;~; If the tank died it turned after me, and i can tank one it and if not life filled to full right after it im dead. XP Clerics kept me alive a couple of times until fighter got the dragon back. >< Wasted about 30-40s in T3 scroll. XP But it was kinda funny