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What would you do?
So lvramire and I were randomly discussing the "goodie" about getting 1 exp from monsters 30+ levels higher than you. And we came to the conclusion it wouldn't do much =/ Everyone would still be where they are, only powerleveling would be effected.
This is assuming the "goodie" is for zone population balancing (ie. 30s in AEW). We both think if they were to do the __ levels higher gives you 1 exp, we'd do 20 or 25 levels, that or put level restrictions on zones. What do you guys think they should do? Before posting, we both wanna point out... 1. This isn't a complain about what Outspark did or isn't doing thread 2. Don't flame others for their opinions 3. This isn't a level prejudice thread |
If it was 20 or 25 levels, a level 50 wouldn't get any exp from most FoS mobs, and quite a few AEW mobs. That isn't very fair, especially if someone at my level can solo there... =\
Eh, 20-25 might be good for non-partying, but if a party of 50s can AoE mobs 25+ levels higher, it's fine. |
In my opinion that wouldn't change a thing. The Orcs are level 60 (or 61 but that's not the point) and once a person gets to 31 they can start getting the exp. So, what's the point? Unless they figure out a way where you gradually start getting more exp as you get closer to the monster's level... then decrease again when you are further away.
Or they can just fix up the whole exp system to be similar to BK. It's a grind fest still but seeing 3-4 digits compared to 2-3 digits in the exp box, in my mind, seems like I've gained more. |
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I don't know about you, but I'm tired of competing for mobs with people 20, even 30 levels below me. Level 30s and 40s in FoS when there are so many other places for them to optimally grind is no fun at all. If the limit was only 30 lvls, it wouldn't change a thing. Just saying, that if it's implemented, that 30lvls is too little to make a difference.
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Before you think about just your level group, think of how it'd effect others. In the end, it may benefit you. With 20-25, 30s- would be out of Uruga, eliminating a lot of competition, then 40s and 50s could have CP, SEG, Uruga and parts of AEW. 60s could have parts of AEW and FoS, 70s could have parts of FoS and BR(assuming it'll get implemented soon). They would all have CP1 and 2, also battlegrounds. We really aren't at a loss in zones and areas, but its just that everyone wants the highest amount of exp they can get, so most assume its Uruga/AEW/FoS so they ALL go there, even if they won't get quests for that area til 30 levels later.
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i think we have this population problem, coz characters in Fiesta can kill mobs up to 30 levels above them in a party... which i dont really see the problem... The problem arise when level 6x and 7x should be killing mobs that are lvl 9x - 10x, but its not available to them... so they're stuck at grinding things on their own level... which is FoS.... high levels have a problem with lower levels grinding where they are, coz they've got no where else to go and these high levels are more than capable to grind at places two maps above wat we've got... I guess putting a 30 lvl restriction means the plvling scenario will slow down a bit.... (but probably not by much) If they wanna solve the population scenario they gotta put more maps in... otherwise... chagne 30 to 25 levels doesnt seem to make much difference.. and 20 levels gets a bit rigid for higher lvls (45+?) |
If i had something to say in that matter. I would suggest that monster get an att/def boni for every lvl they are over the attackers lvl. That way people who are way below the monster lvl could still fight them one after another, but they couldn't aoe them anymore.
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The true solution is to make weapons and armour exponential in nature. What does this mean? Well if the level 60 armour gives 100 def, 51 evasion, and 67 magic defense, then make the level 70 armour give 400 defense, 200 evasion, somewhere around 250 magic defense. While the numbers sound crazy, if the level 70 monsters were balanced to that armour, and give tons more experience than they do now (factor of 3 or 4) then we would have a better situation here. It would mean that level 60's could only kill in a level 70 zone with the assistance of a party. No level 50 could concieve even hitting a level 70 monster because of the evasion, never mind surviving a single hit because the attack, and defense is a*a (a-squared; where a is the factor of increase.) This would create a nice gradient effect so as long as the character levelling stats create a smoother transition into the difference between armour stats. |
I think instead of messing around with the mobs... a simpler and more effective way would be to restrict access to areas entirely according to level.
As it is now, the only areas restricted by level are the "farmable" boss dungeons. I think some maps ought to be restricted in this manner as well. Like CP and Uruga. |
IMO they could just increase the % gap in exp you don't get if based on the level difference so it won't be worth to go to those places in lower levels anymore. heck, let them kill the harder mobs, but they won't get even the exp someone their level soloing in the appropriate area would lol.
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That still wouldn't negate the problem of low levels wandering where they shouldn't be. The only way to have people out of the maps they're not supposed to be in is by restricting access. Now, you might say it's too limiting to the player's freedom to explore the world, but seriously, this game doesnt work like that.
If this game was fully open world like some other games (with no gates or "maps" but one big world) then it would be relevant to let people wander where they please. Because in that type of game, there is NEVER a need to "contend" with others for a "spot" of mobs... you always have some kind of place where you can grind easy, because the world is so big. |
I agree with Lilian. While seeing the occasional ant swarm of people in places they really oughtn't to be can be vexing when your'e trying to grind, I look at it this way: They're really not doing that much harm. I mean, it takes them a good while to kill something, so its not like they're taking all the spawn. When Lil and I grinded a lot on blue trumpies and an ant swarm of level 3x-mid 4x would come in, we would kill about 5-6 trumpies before they could kill just one, lol.
With people farming things though, the only frustration it caused was when they would run towards us with a trumpy and die at our feet, leaving us with aggro, which with her being such a beast wasn't ever a problem, but if she were say, a mage or something, then I could see it being an issue. My ideal resolution of dealing with this problem is simple and balanced. Instead of putting an experience cap on mobs, put a level cap on gates. However, it should still be available for people who do not meet the cap to pass through the gates so long as they are in a party with somebody who can. This would still allow for powerleveling to take place, or duoing if your cleric is quite lower than you. I mean, you get an exp boost from powerleveling lowbies for a reason, I think. :3 Maybe not though since, after all, its outspark. But this way of course would still allow people to do the same thing they are doing but it would be in a much more controlled and fair aspect. It seems a lot of people who have reached levels above 50 have, no offense, forgotten what it was like to be such a low level and broke, and have become somewhat snobby and even greedy about the issue. Come on, you guys remember how devastated we were as lowbies, always broke and barely scraping by with a silver or two? =P And how would you feel if you had a friend you wanted to powerlevel or help out, but you couldn't because of these caps or restrictions? Would eat away at the gameplay's community aspects. Lets see some pros and cons:
These are just my personal lists. But yeah, actually, the most trouble lil and I had while grinding in blue trumpies wasn't caused by farmers or lowbies, but rather by people quite higher who would take the entire spawn of the map. Like I said - I honestly believe most complaints are from people of higher levels who have gotten a little overly greedy. |
Though levels caps seem favorable I don't think letting parties through just because they can is fair. I know some people want to help their friends power level and such but... what's the point of playing a game just to be power leveled? You should eliminated the possibilities of power leveling all together so that you wouldn't have people advertising such stuff either.
Too many are short sighted when it comes to leveling. :/ I've always stayed in maps I should be in and gained more than when I was invited to an AOE party 10+ levels above me. Then it all comes down to... balancing the game out already!! >_< Btw, the map after Burning Rock is... I think the Swamp of Dawn stuff. Hyper posted pics on the mobs there. Don't expect that to come out soon... other version recently got it. So that may mean a million years away for us (unless they "accidentally" open it). :rolleyes: EDIT: I also don't get why people want to go to these higher leveled maps where they clearly do not belong. You get crap-ass drops because the monsters are red and by the time you can 'sort' of go there you lose so much exp when you die. I find it much, much more efficient when you stay at a map your level killing things that won't take away half your HP every hit. You also waste less pots/stones and gain more drops. .__. And I guess the overflow of people is mainly due to fact that there are WAY more people playing Fiesta than kFiesta or BK. I'd see like 2-3 people in Roumen while in Fiesta it'd be so full that I can't walk 2 steps without clicking on a person or shop. |
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But, you also need to be a high levelled (70 and above) to see our point as well. 71 - BAM! 13,300,000 exp to grind off. 72 - BAM! 14,438,305 exp to go! ... 78 - BAM! I dont want to even know... We naturally go to the Forest of Slumber since most of the monsters are orange, yellow, and some even still red. The few lucky people who get AOE parties are at the Ancient stonies sharing 2400+partybonus exp a stonie 5 ways. The other lucky people are at the Shylphs splitting 1800+partybonus exp 5 ways. The problem is, the experience rates in the Forest of slumber arent the greatest at our level. ASSUMING you recieve 100% of the stonie exp, and can kill 1 every 5 seconds, thats 6015 ancient stonies, 30,075 seconds, 501 minutes, or 8 hours non stop to level at 72. Now lets take a more realistic approach: You recieve approximately 800 exp, and recieve maybe 12 in a wave of monsters that can be gathered every 40 seconds. Thats, 60159 seconds, 1002 minutes, or 16 hours grinding non stop. Now lets factor in the fact that other AOE parties are competing too. You get roughly if not less than 1 half of the number 12. The time spent grinding jumps to 32 hours. Now lets factor in the fact that you may not even get a party (this is my case.) At 2173 a lizard knight, 35 seconds to kill and rest up, thats 232,554 seconds, 3875 minutes, or 64 hours of grinding... Doesn't look pretty.... Couple that with the fact that I may or may not get lizard knights because a swarm of 30's and 40's are rushing in with their oversized party to take care of 1 knight. The time of 64 hours jumps drastically. Had burning rock been opened it wouldn't nearly be as bad. Although I can understand it may seem selfish on our parts, but everyone else needs to understand: we have no place to go.... Had burning rock and flaming mine been opened, many of us would be spread out. Fights for monsters would still insue, but I'm pretty content grinding on Core Guardians at 2600 exp a pop. We were actually quite pleased the day we saw the burning rock gate - or at least I was. I'd welcome having 30's and 40's around, if I could go someplace else when it gets too crowded, or if there were other options to level. But as it stands currently:
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Ok... i admit i didnt read AD's last post... too much reading sry... LOL but i'll respond to:
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Going into higher level maps isnt the only way out for a lowbie... plus, lvl 50s need their source of money too, if they choose to farm then they shouldnt hv to fight for mushrooms with lower levels who cant even kill the trumpies themselves... (i really hate it when i kill a trumpy to get to a mushroom only to have a lvl 3x wait till i started fighting and take my mushrooms) if they can handle their own mobs, fine... but coz they cant... they shouldnt be there... i dont see how allowing some lowbies who happens to have a higher lvl friend through a map, and not other ppl of the same level without a higher lvl frd considered to be "fair and controlled"... Quote:
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I fully support a experience restriction and/or a level requirement on gates.
There are many reasons for enforcing this, of which I will list. 1. No powerleveling. Simply put, the trailblazers had to level the normal way. I personally fail to see why someone gets to take the easy way out and completely neglect the mastery of his or her class. Sure, he or she is able to learn how to be adequate, but mastery will elude them. 2. No inexperienced players. As per the second half of the statement above, I've met clerics that enjoy going afk or healing themselves while I pull mobs in a duo. I may have 2.5k hp without extenders or a buff as a mage, but that doesn't make me a tank. If there were a level requirement on gates... 1. No farmers. This is going to be laconic, but I fail to see how some level 20 can get rich simply by picking up items in a map such as Ancient Elven Woods. He or she can work his or her way up like the rest of us did. 2. No spam bots. I can block them, but they're still annoying. 3. No low levels begging for powerleveling. They always float by and beg for powerleveling. Most can take a hint when I say "no." There are some that are dense enough to keep begging until I get annoyed and slam the blockhammer. Keep in mind that us level 70s have nowhere to go but Forest of Slumber for efficiency. Ancient Elven Woods is mediocre, at best. Low levels have all the maps, we only get one and a half. Yes, Ancient Elven Woods only counts as half a map, at best. |
- nod nod -
- nod nod nod - at Tri's post... and LOL@blockhammer XD |
I realize that you have no place else to go yet AD, but you're SUPPOSED to, those maps are supposed to be in.
And I still stand by my point when I think most of the complaining are from higher ups bitching because they can't have ALL The spawn. Because, when lil and I were in trumpies, aoe parties would SPAZ if they couldn't get ALL the trumpies there. Seriously, there were many times that lil would use mock to get a trumpy off me that lost interest in somebody riding around on a horse, and the person training it got PISSED. And triumph - I went from level 1-52 in under 2 weeks. However, that doesn't mean I don't know how to play my class. Lil's only died twice when we grind together and that was when she had 7+ blue trumpies on her and I lagged out thanks to xtrap. Also - Powerleveling somebody's "First" character is kind of crap, because then you lose out on gameplay and gaining knowledge, however, I'm sure people have friends who decide to make new characters and are up for a powerleveling. I still think people are being selfish. Try to look at it from both points of view besides your own - your 'right' isn't the only 'right'. *EDIT* Also, to a lot of you - saying this in kindest way possible, but you're being kind of hypocritical, because a lot of you leveled on things higher than you. Remember our early uruga parties back int he day when we were like, late 3x- to early 4x? =P So seriously..try to see from both points of views. |
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To your first point - I was not accusing you of incompetence. Rather, I was stating a mere fact...those who are powerleveled will not know how to play their class masterfully. You duoed - that cannot be truly considered or classified as powerleveling, can it? Secondly, my first character was soloed to 26. My second was largely soloed to 57; sure, I partied up for Robo KQs or dungeon quests, but extended periods of grinding? Nope. My third and current was soloed to 31, and then began partying up in Goblin Camp. A mage with 5,000 T1 HP potions with full +9 equipment can drop mobs like mad. Sure, the mobs were higher...but not like being in Forest of Slumber with level 40s. And no, I do not remember any early Uruga parties. If I recall correctly, Lilian was in high demand on her mage back in September-November of 2007. I suppose I get to call myself one of the few non-hypocrites? O_o |
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i just want to stop the level 2x in uruga... 3x going to AEW... no lvl 4x in FoS... because that is supposingly out of their level range... |
I wasn't talking about you, tri. lol but some of the other people in this thread - yeahhh, lol. We were fire ants ourselves back in the day.
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The only way to get there was by dying in CP1 and the Templar at the bridge killed any who couldn't handle it. (Rush lvled in our 40.s in CP and GC so I guess were non-hypocrites too) |
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So it makes it okay simply because it was back then, but not okay for people now? |
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I suppose it stands less to reason to do it now, simply because there are now level 70s who have a long road ahead of them for the next level... |
Regardless - I still find that to be somewhat hypocritical, because in the end, its saying "Well it was okay for US to do it because it was like this, but its not okay for you now that we're all high level" >_>
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was FoS there before Outspark raised the level cap to 79??
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No that's not what I meant. I mean even if 30's were in Uruga/AeW/FoS back then it didn't matter. That's because there was noone else who was there. Only a few spawns were actually used, but now there's too many people competing for the same spots, with some of those competitors actually having nowhere else to grind. |
Well - yeah, its going to become like that anywhere you go with a game that has such a high population. I remember back in the day when it was rare to see a couple other people in uruga - and now its packed, lol. So its going to end up packed no matter what you do. =T And like I mentioned above - the most problems we ever had with people taking spawns were higher leveled aoers (Talking like a group of 6x aoeing blue trumpes) taking the ENTIRE spawn, lol.
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its' packed already.. so we're just trying suggest what we would do to limit the population there..
and that's to put a lock on maps where ppl are too low level to be there... |
So, the problem is rather within the game and how it is designed, than the people who play it: the maps are too small, with way too little choice for "spawns", which leads to having to compete with other people.
Also, how did the definition go again? "if you can't solo a monster, you shouldnt be in the map." allright. Well, I see lv4x people soloing in AEW. Yeah, they take a long time to kill a mob, but they can do it regardless. if you have a bunch of lowbies taking 1 monster from a spawn of 15, and you being able to kill 5 in the time it takes the lowbies to kill that 1... does it really matter? ON THE OTHER HAND, if you're soloing in your spot as a, say lv6x in AEW, but a group of similarly leveled aoers move in and basically kick you out of the spawn you've been in, by taking the whole lot, and leaving you with ONE mob until more spawn? which of these situations will affect you more? |
mm yeah, what they suggested being like, a level 35 lock on the gate and scrolls was nice enough in my opinion. But then people still whined and stuff, but people will always whine.
And guys don't get all frustrated! I wasn't attacking anybody here, i'm just trying to get out both sides for everybody because it all seems quite one-sided. |
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and that's exactly the problem. People now have to AoE if they want to get any measurable xp in any amount of time. I was in FoS earlier today, in the vaunted Ancient Stonies spawn. Even then it took me 3 hours to get 10% with a 20% boost card. A level 78 who was with me only got 1% the whole time we partied. Restricting xp/ lvl caps on gates(I don't really want caps on gates as it seems too final) will at least prevent people competing with people 30lvls below them for the same mob. -whos frustrated? @.@- |
RAWR! maybe its my tone of speech but i'm not frustrated :D :D :D
i get annoyed with lowbies take my mushrooms... that is all... that's proably the only reason why I see the need for a level cap atm... i just hv to suck it up when anotehr lvl 5x was competing for mushrooms with me last nite... XD |
Well that's the thing though. You shouldn't put caps on these places just because theyr'e the only ones available to you -now-, since you're SUPPOSED to have more maps open to you to level in but you don't. =T In my opinion, they should forget adjusting caps on places and work more on getting out new maps and etc.
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Heh, they added Sand Hill hella late. Seems like it was almost an afterthought. I guess it can affect lvling somewhat as I know you get some quests there.
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lmao yeah, I went to sand hill like once on my cleric when I Felt like soloing at a low level when you were'nt online lil, and I saw one other person there? LOL.
This game desperately needs more maps though. ESPECIALLY that they're upping the level cap to 89 this month (supposedly) its like.. x_X |
Pftt lvl cap raise >.>
As if people aren't too concerned with lvling enough. I'll be really mad with Outspark if they do another "lets see who can hit lvl cap first by buying lotsa lotsa xp extenders " event again. A lot of friends quit from that and it changed some people. Are there even a lot of 70s? I don't think they can even find enough people to do the 70's kq. gg Outspark |
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