Just curious
 

I am wondering if that the fighters will eventually become useless in the much higher levels from being a tank, cause since we all know that clerics can tank almost as well as a fighter, and since I have heard rumors now that level 60 archers can tank pretty good as well.

My guild leader told us that and that kinda kept me wondering as well. So since clerics and (maybe) archers can tank really well at the higher levels, then whats the point of a fighter?

My leader suggested that one of the following should be changed or adjusted (for the cleric):

1. The clerics shouldnt be given so much defense, make it so that they have defense between the mages and the archers.

2. Make it so that they cant heal themselves, just the party (I would like to add in that they could aoe heal in the later levels as well)

Changing one of these will make clerics want to go to a party more often as well. Also, clerics could tank but not tank like 3 or more strong enemies at once without getting killed.

And for archers is to not have such high defense.

I'm, not trying to get one sided to any class, i'm jsut trying to make a point here. Please no flaming either :) Just post your opinions about this and anything you think I have missed here that could make the fighters being a better tank than anyone else :)


But what do you all think?

PS yes i'm a fighter but still I think that if the clerics defense and archers defense is high enough that they can tank as good as a fighter, then the fighter can become useless and all that hard work that me and the other high lvl fighters are worthless.

Isn't the major benefit of a fighter the fact that he can hold aggro w/ his AOE stuff? a cleric can't do that.

We've all seen archers/clerics tank easier mobs and bosses, but without buffs i dont think either of them could tank the dungeon bosses (ggk, zk, etc.).

Ive seen mages tank in the jpFiesta videos of spider KQ. o.O

well a lvl 60 archer can aggro a lot as well when they get that aoe attack on the mob. I remember I was with a lvl 64 archer and she aggroed so much that my mock wouldnt aggro most of the trumpies we were facing.

The dungeon bosses I think a fighter would be useful in actually. But with grinding, an archer can really aggro a lot when facing mobs.

Also, clerics can aggro pretty well too with all that healing. Yes they cant aggro by taunting or mock, but they could solo pretty well when they are str/end and possibly take on a fairly good amount of strong enemies.

No. Clerics can't replace fighters in later KQs. Even in Mini Dragon, if a cleric tanks and dies, Dragon would annihilate everyone before they managed to get aggro back.

Whoever said that in your guild is pretty stupid.

Anyways, if you haven't checked the Wiki, eventually Fighters will out-damage mages. (When fighters use skills.)

And cleric/archer DEF doesn't even compare with a fighter in high levels.

There's also the fact that fighters have a massive amount of HP more than other classes.


Clerics might have equal or higher M. DEF at the top, but I'm not sure.

ok so you got me with archers but still clerics can heal themselves as well, and they are only given 3 secs CD time to heal while if you use a stone its like 5 - 7 sec CD time (I think, I never really counted the time of stones) but in a way clerics can be given a lot more health when they heal themselves a lot compared to fighters.

The reason the archer took aggro away from you is because she's 10 levels above you. You also don't have Mock 2 (unless your level isn't 53 anymore) which is another reason she took it away. I take aggro off tanks who are lower level... even the same level as me at times with my AOE poison.

At higher levels it wouldn't be as efficient to solo. Most are going to be AOEing... and clerics won't be able to hold aggro for all of them. They can probably tank 1-3 at a time but not 10+ like a fighter.

If any of you have done the Minidragon KQ, Spider Assault KQ, or any of the Dungeon bosses or high level mobs, you wouldn't be saying any other class can tank as effectively as a fighter.

In spider, No fighter, No Mock, and you have a failed King Quest.

When you see a cleric, or archer tanking the Legendary tree, or the GHost Knight then it'll be a different story.

lol, mage tank ghost in cp2 lol, I tank white joker as a mage...

Well..... Exhibit A:
Yukijin Defeating the GodTree

But then.... Exhibit B:
Concerns About the Cleric from one of top-level Clerics around.

IMO, Fighters are the class are need to be nerfed a little. They can tank, do DPS, Stun just in-case they are doing too much damage and the clerics need to catch up >.>, and HEAL themselves with Vampyric Strike or whatever.

The last thing you should be worried about is Fighters becoming useless or under-powered.

Meanwhile, Archers can't even get a decent Entangle skill.

I'll just say this. Clerics have no firepower, at all. We are not capable of dishing out damage the way fighters/archers/mages do, and we only have 4 attack skills, tops. The two released are Bash and Bleed/Trip, and the third and fourth unreleased skills are Break and Extinguish.

Nerfing cleric defense? Fighters are stated to have "the highest strength and endurance," but does that mean that everyone else has about 5 defense while you have 500? A cleric is designed to take punishment so that they can stay alive and keep their party alive. Good luck keeping your party alive if your cleric gets one-hit by a stray Ancient Stonie.

Likewise, clerics not being able to heal themselves? That forces clerics to rely on potions, stones, and other clerics for healing. When they themselves are getting hit repeatedly, eventually they'll die.

A tank has the highest HP out of all four classes, and the highest defense to boot. Yes, a cleric can tank almost as well as a fighter. But a clank can't take as many hits as a fighter, and also can't Mock or Devastate.

I've seen Dragon OHKO a few 5x clerics.

What? No no no! I am horrified about the idea that clerics are not able to heal themselves! No no no... -shakes head-

I completely disagree with the fact that fighters become useless as tanks later on. They have skills to help them tank, i.e. mock and stuff to aggro the mobs. Clerics don't. Though clerics may be able to tank, fighters are more effective because they can keep an aggro on them. You have taken into account that clerics have heal, but you need to also take into account how effect mock/other taunt skills can be.

I sometimes duo with an archer, and even though I can take more hits than him, he still aggro's the mob and the mob still hits him rather than me. So I end up standing there healing him more than hitting. However, with a fighter there, I wouldn't have to heal as much because the fighter would be able to keep the mob hitting him/her. Therefore, I would be able to help hit and kill the mob and make better use of myself.

You shouldn't just look at the stats. Skills are important in game, they are the ones that draws the difference between classes the most. Stats do affect your character, but it's a whole different story when skills are used.

Being able to tank isn't just about how much defense you have, it is about how effectively you do it.

I stand corrected about the legendary tree.

Vampiric strike is on a 2 minute cool time. It cannot be used as a healing skill despite what you clerics may believe.

1-handed fighters have lower damage per second than a cleric.

You dont know anything about fighters if your saying they need to be nerfed.

Introducing Exhibit C:

http://www.fiestafan.com/forums/show...9&postcount=20

Good luck to any cleric that tries to tank even 6 or 7 of these guys, nevermind the vivis. Keep in mind, when we mock, we collect 10...

This KQ will make you cry fighter if you find yourself with only 1.

They say we're overpowered. BUT WE HAVE SUCH LOUSY DAMAGE. We kill about 3 times as slow as other classes, and if we can't even HEAL ourselves and have some good END, I say this class shouldn't even be created in the first place.

We might be able to tank, we might be able to heal, but do you see us being so invincible that everyone of us charges to the lengendary brocolli and kicking its ass? No, because our damage sucks, we have only 1 good damage skill aka bash, and bleed/trip is SERIOUSLY underpowered and a waste of silvers and sp. Take that you didn't empower cooldown on bash. It takes 4 seconds for cooldown. Say that the mob has about 900/1000 hp, and you only hit 70/80 on it. That's 12, 13 hits. AND counting the times you miss, it might be 15, 16 hits. Your bash may miss, but taking that bash is 4x your normal damage, it'll be around 14,15 hits. 15 hits JUST to kill ONE mob? That's just outrageous. Especially if you're ganged by, say, 2 or 3 more mobs. If we don't have END, we don't have heal, I say we die in less than 3 hits.

That's not all. In GWs, we can't even kill the opposing team unless we're up against a mage or maybe an archer. Fighters can stun us, which stops are from healing, and also has LOTS of def, which makes them almost impossible to touch. I was up against a lvl 4x fighter and I could ONLY hit a miserable 30. Plus I was missing half of the time. And I died within 1 stun, and another power hit. That doesn't make us very overpowered, does it. If we're lucky, we're against a mage or an archer, which has less def. But put in mind that mages, have HUGE damage. Which can be about 300-400 sometimes. Clerics doesn't have a lot of hp, and we die in like 3 hits without healing. So END doesn't really help there, and without our heals, we're just standing ducks. Same goes for archers. They have bleed, poison, and also decent damage. At least much more than us anyway. And they CAN tank sometimes, which means that they have pretty good def in them. We'll take forever to kill them before they gets us first. That's about it in GWs. We're basically just support sometimes, which takes the fun out of everything. Unlike fighters who can just rush in and whack at the opposing team, and the mages and archers who does damage from far away.

Shall I mention that we're the only class without an AoE that can actually do damage? Fighters had it easy in devastate. They can AoE, stun, AND do the damage in that. So at least give us some credit for being able to survive at least. Anyway, it won't benefit you if the clerics in the party died, would it?

I think clerics were overpowered in terms of survival, back in CB1. Their invincibility had a cooldown of about 20 secs, and the buff itself lasted for about 30, heh. That's enough of me reminiscing about the past...

LMAO. That was my LONGEST POST EVER! D: I took 15 mins just to type it out.

as an archer i tanked up to 3 clover trumpies before and kept the aggro to myself by making all 3 had a DoT on them
bleed keeps for a short time so hit the 1 u inflicted with bleed

and yes fighter have mock which is better to keep like 20+ aggro on them
i cant do that ><
i die!!! lol

OffTopic: Aww...Look its litte Yuki killing GodTree. I'm so proud. :3

._. i seen tat wayyy long ago =3

I dont think fighters will ever become useless, since they are the only class who can mock, sneering kick, and have the highest defence (depending on stats/armour). Also, there are many different builds, which may affect defence/attack.

I am against taking away the cleric's ability to heal themselves, because then I think no one would want to play a cleric. The cleric needs to remain alive, and cannot heal others when dead.

Sometimes, a fighter may suck at tanking, or a cleric may suck at healing. No point having all those skills if you dont know how to use them properly. practise makes perfect.

Im not sure about full end clerics, i have half my points in end (other half in str), and the last time i tried to tank a boss (there was no fighter), i got stunned, then the boss went to attack others and i couldnt heal (clerics cannot heal others when stunned or hit by fear).

I can however tank a few yellow mobs and even kill them (sometimes using both stones and healing spells), but yellow elites kill me too fast. also, even if i do "tank", its only when soloing, since any other class would outdamage me and aggrovate the monster. I doubt that a full spr cleric can do that, which is why i say how you assign ur stats also plays an important role.

aoe heal seems to grab all the mob to a cleric
even right after 2 mocks
>_>