+damage in the freestat window
 

They really do add on to the actual damage you inflict. This means it is unaffected by modifiers such as monster defense. I tested this out on an Orc with a sub level 10 archer, and for every extra STR I add I did 1 more damage. With such a huge discrepancy between the Orc's defense and my pathetic display damage, I can only attribute the damage increase solely to the +STR.

I just thought this might interest people who favour +SPR over +STR. For maximum actual damage: the amount of extra damage from critical hits, spread out over a large number of hits, cannot match the +damage from +STR until your average actual damage exceed 1000 by a margin. While this might be done versus things half your level, in normal circumstances you can only dream about 4 digit average damage.

At level 50, 55 points into STR would give a whooping 66 extra damage per hit, which is independent of the thing you're attacking. I'd think that means a lot to clerics hammering things by themselves.

I suspect the +Mdamage from +INT works the same too.

It would seem full INT mage > Fission :(

Well...Hitting orcs at 400 dmg(guessing, fighters at level 50 correct me), 50 extra damage isn't..that much. Especially when you got an extra 5% crit and are doing 2-3 crits per monster..

400..400..800.800.400.
450..450..450..450..450

Statistics wise you're wrong. Don't forget that you also have other sources of crit% that contribute to a higher degree to your number of criticals.

Also, 400 damage? Really? That's a ****load more than mages.

Well, not really. My archer gets at least 1 crit every 2 monsters....and thats not even 1/2 the percentage I'll be at in the next two levels. My cousin is a SPR fighter he gets plenty of crits(at least one per kill)...

Also, my level 38 cleric gets about 50-130 dmg on orcs...I would suspect that a fighter at 50+ would get much more than that just by how fast I've seen them kill...

400 damage isn't a lot for a fully complete license. I hit 400 regular (500-600 with a successful fatal slash) with a completed orc-license. Crits can reach 2200 damage (Power hit crit.) Since power hit is the second in my skill spam if both Fatal Slash crits along with Power Hit its a 2-hit kill.

And yes, this was mentioned quite awhile ago on the fighter forums. Damage bonus is applied after defense and strength calculations are taken into account.

well if ur lvl 50 you could have 25+ SPR and around 25+ INT/STR (not sure how many bonus you get) but if you do that then the crit is added to that 25 more damage and you get crit a lot more so i would think a fusion would be best.
BTW what was your archers base str at the time because im pretty sure bonus points affect damage differently depending on base, might be wrong though.
Id like more evidence with som1 at a higher lvl.

Like I said 25 extra damage isn't a lot when your already critting for 2200...

Wait... So the thingy on the "free stat" window is the actual additional damage?

At my level, i get +30 damage. So if i took all my str away, i will only be doing 30 damage less? O.o

Exactly

That's useless then. I could've spent my str points on something much more better...

Us clerics need str at first to kill faster. Every bit counts.

Yes, I reconsidered it. I'm glad i put strenth now lol. I'm going to switch to some other stat now and see. By the way, I'd like to point out that there is an error in the wiki.

The wiki states that the "END" stats give +5 def. It only gives +1, so if anyone would correct it, please do.

In response to anyone who thinks the extra damage from STR is worthless. Remind yourselves what 5% crit really means, because calculation tells me that if you had just 25 points to spare, that unless your average, not your show-off, damage, exceed 1200, those extra 5% damage < 30 extra damage every hit. If you think you do critical hits a lot, it is not wholly to the credit of +crit% from +SPR, because your other sources of crit% > bonus crit% from +SPR (with particular reference to an axe with maxed Orc License).

I have seen someone mentioning the direct addition of +damage before but I can't find it anymore =/

Purely informative post.

ALL This has been pointed out before...Especially in the fighter section


Except recently...
Thing is though i just figured out a few days ago the [U]extra damage can CHANGE [U]

The other day freak (who has +25 str as he said) was punching me for 23 damage in a gw. If math was correct he SHOULD have hit for 25+ damage...




AS FOR THE SPR VS STR ARGUEMENT
the spr points is meant mainly for pvp purposes. 25 spr translates into 30 damage points in strength which in pvp or LATER GAME is worthless. the extra crit keeps it's use/advantage later on in the game since its a PERCENTAGE rather then a direct sum.

Mathwise str is at most beneficial in grinding and for 1handed sword users since the damage bonus happens MUCH more frequently.

While as you said on normal circumstances the 4 digit damage is rare but with a PROPERLY built crit setup the effects of spr can be devastating in Pvp.
Just comebine a
9% crit axe
+5% from license
+5% from spr
+2% from earrings
and if your paying
+25% from cash shop tuxedo


Thats over 40% crit rate
When your a fighter SPAMMING SKILLS IN PVP the crits would be consistent and DEVASTATING.

As i said before later on in the game the bonus 30 damage would become VERY neglibile its great trade off for a pretty good crit rate increase

let do a little bit math:

i assume that crits double the resulting damage(after defence)

25spr gives 25*0,2% crit = +5%crit = +2,5%dmg
25str gives 25*1,2min dmg = +30min dmg

k now let us find the damage where +25spr and +25str give the same bonis
x = 30/0.025 = 1200. //simple percent calculation

And so we know that +25str gives better results when the avg dmg is under 1200. And +25spr gives better dmg if the avg dmg is above 1200.

But we must remember that +25str is more reliable.

Note: It is possible that the free stats are also part of the basic stats. If that the case +25str will additionally raise the str just like a ring with the same value

Edit: just saw someone else posting that stuff nvm then

Repeating the same messages drills things into people's heads. Plus... This doesn't only apply to fighters. AND, there's one thing that's always in any discussion about stat points I've seen, and that thing is bias, bucket loads of it. That's why my original post was pretty concise and if you read through it again, you'll probably pick up more things!

"VERY neglibile" compared to what? Compared to the combined crit%, hell yes. Compared to the additional 5% from +25SPR, no, I don't think so. This is what I'm trying to convey, the fact that the tiny damage IS actually significant compared to the 5% crit. NOT all your fantastic crit% combined.

In the PvP context, your opponent will have some tweaks from the freestat thingy, something that monsters don't have. You can't expect to do the same sort of damage you do to monsters :O

Read what I said about the cut-off minimum average damage you need to be doing before that <quote>PERCENTAGE</quote> start to work its wonders. It's 1200. From watching fighters take it out on one another, it seems the higher the level the less significant the damage they inflict on one another. Certainly NOT 1200 a hit. I recall your guildies hitting me with axes when I was 10 levels lower, and being a mage in the 40s, it took a few hits to chop my mushroom.

I actually did a huge table on the effective bonus damages with 3 parameters, so the number crunching doesn't agree with you =/ Don't forget too, there are clerics around and they have much lower base STR than you do.

This is all hypothesizing and I find it rather amusing that people often jump straight to conclusions, even so firmly.

ohh man that emberassing. i made an error

if
+25spr gives 5% additional crit, and crit doubles damage after reduced by the defence. Then the Damage bonus is 5%. (+100%*5%= +5%)

following that logic: x = 30/5% = 600

have fun.

I SERIOUSLY doubt it took more then a few hits to chop down a lower lvl 10 mage in a mushroom unless they were not using skills.
Further more No one EVER mentioned hitting 1200 hits.. Once everyone starts equipping the +9 weapons from the Miles that JUST BEEN released people WILL be slapping for ALOT more even fighters. (unless someone can pump out full +9 armor too) And were not just comparing fighter vs fighter damage are we? Fighters don't just fight other fighters..You've proven your point str is at best benefit against high defense character situations but really it only cost 25 points in spr which only calculates to 30 damage WHICH WILL MOST LIKELY EVENTUALLY become negilble. You may call this a hypothesis again..But there are much more player levels to account for in the game.

As for the lower damage for higher level argument
Freak whos around lvl 54-57 1 handed fighter (+3 presumable some kind of cg sword but could be clean) could hit me a lvl 53 fighter (no shield but 20 end points) for around 220 damage with 25str and skill without critting. Thats not pretty bad damage at all. With 25 spr he would have a higher chance of critting for 440. How much more damage if he got the chance to approach a more lightly armored character?

The THING is with pvp too in most GW's its all the matter of HOW MUCH damage you can inflict before a person can stone. Skill CRITS make the difference here not the 30 damage bonus that takes a longer time..


And really with this Hypothesis thing? I've only said statements with reasoning and some experimentation. And you have too unless you bring that chart out.

I KNOW i was wrong the Tux does NOT = 25% crit ( I thought it did LMAO)
But anyway
What makes you think what could go wrong with a properly built crit fighter?


Bring out that chart you've been talking about. I'm really interested....

Regardless of how the statistics are, the entirety of a character's build is based on the preferences of the player.

Some may choose for those criticals that splash more damage; others may choose for a more consistent pattern.

Be as it may, but I think a fighter with higher critical is better off. A fighter that hits consistently is good, don't doubt it. But against a cleric, it's probably better to get lucky and get a critical right when they're low.

Hence the idea
Deal as much as you can before the person can heal in pvp...

How?

I can heal up to 5000 HP in two seconds. A battle with a cleric is almost certain to be a draw, even if you stun and Mana Burn.

With 4 fighters its entirely possible to kill you. With an enhanced devastate a chainstun can occur, where 1 fighter stuns for 8 seconds and once the effect wears off another fighter stuns for another 8 seconds. All 4 fighters contributing means a 32 second stun all together, but devastate is on a 20 second cooldown.

What does this mean? Your never going to get a chance to use your cleric skills. At this point you have to rely on your stones and potions and hope none of the fighters have a +9 axe making their strength equivalent to a lv.60.

Cleric 1 on 1 is an almost dead certain draw. But the moment you have 4 fighters on 1 cleric, every and any cleric will tell you possibly cant survive, without outside assistance.

I've noticed Also ...The level difference between the players also gives some kind of effect on the damage..
Ever noticed why you can crit for 10k+ on slimes at lvl 40?

From my experiment earlier with Freak's punches only doing 23 (every punch) when logically they SHOULD do 26
My deduction is the level difference between the 2 also has an effect on damage. BONUS DAMAGE FROM STRENGTH IS ALSO AFFECTED.

while this is all well and true, it's also pretty straightforward fact that ANYONE will die when put into a situation where they are alone against 4 other people... (unless the 4 other people are really low) so what's the point of bringing that piece of info in this discussion? :P

Sorry, but the tone of the post that I quoted implied that clerics were superior and could handle anything.

The phrase: "I can heal up to 5000 HP in two seconds." Initially set the tone of implication, and the following sentance "A battle with a cleric is almost certain to be a draw, even if you stun and Mana Burn." Implied to superiority, which is obviously not the case when fighting four people as you said.

Thus the point of bringing it up is to indicate that clerics arent the end all and be all of wars - they certainly arent invincible. Just as fighters arent the end all and be all of a party nor is a mage or archer the end all or be all of massive-damage inflicting characters.

if you have 5% crit, that means 1 in 20 hits is double...
if you have 25 bonus dmg thats 30 bonus damage per hit.

at what point does it even out and 5% beats 30... (before armor)

100 dmg * 20 = 2000 +1 free 100. that makes 2100.

130*20 = 2600...more

1000dmg *20 = 20000 +1 free 1000 = 21000

1030*20 = 20600... less.

500*20 = 10000 +500 = 10500

530*20 = 10600... more

600*20 = 12000 +600 = 12600

630*20 = 12600 ... same


so figured out if your base damage is 600. then those 25 points are even if its over 600 go with spirit...
if its less than 600 go with str/int...

this is before armor, and only true tests can be the verdict.....


how much dmg are you doing at lvl 50? 60? 70? 80? etc....

this is not exact values, as its all random, and how many times do you hit a monster? the difference is mostly negligable.... the 100 free points, is to help you swing a character one way. not over power things...

its also about your gear, and play style...

remember you get some of each stat every lvl. mages gain str per lvl. or atleast every other lvl. and warriors gain int every lvl. or every other level...

the lvl jump is more significant than the little point balance you do... lvl 100... its prolly more important to go all crit or endurance, than those measily 130 dmg points.