Sanastra's Trying Something New
 

Hi all, this is my second offical trip to FiestaFan, not to share knowledge this time but to gain it..
I tried the mage thing, i was good at it. i taught others some of which now totally own me due to their gears and over use of SC.
i now want to give archers a turn.

Okay facts that i know.. an Archer killing a cleric that is of equal level is a myth unless the cleric either sucks or has supreme lag.. I witnessed a level 100 archer failing to kill a cleric during a fun guildwar(i wont mention the sever)

I know.. that a fighter rapes an archer when it comes to rawr damage and that fighting them headon (even with +9 armour.. which i have no intendsion of getting).. is suicide.

and finally i know that an archer can kill a mage reguardless of its build. my friend Skyla demonstated this on the day he changed from full dex to full str. after eatting a pill he had a duel with a mage.. it dragged out, but he came out on top.. yes thats right, a archer with no attribute points spend (lvl 89). killed a lvl 85 mage. both players using BK+9.
The mage never said his build.. but am prettysure it was probably Full INT since thats all mages seem to be able to do nowdays lol.

So archers, advise me, as i will be starting Legel 1 week from now.

What build should i go with?
What skills should i look to empower?
What stats should i be mainly after on gears?
Styles of play? (combo order etc)

I dunno if this will effect how you all advise me.. but i always play duo with my wife. she is going to be a mage this sever.. so am not on my own at anyrate. my damage is mainly to support hers when dropping people.

I appreciate all your help
Thanks
Sanastra

First of all, glad you joined the family. Althought it seems archers are the "it" class to try now. I for one have been a proud archer since Oct 07 gridnding through it all. I think I can give a little insight that can help you on your path.

Your build. Since your going to be duoing and probably in a party alot 25spr/rest str. The 5% crit from 25spr is essential to any build for an archer and str is the best open stat for a party archer imo.

Empowerment will mostly likely change pre and post lv51. Just make sure you have 15 point by level 51 to put into damage,cooldown,and sp consumption on natures mist. Do the same for lv 75. Other than that the points are up to you. I suggest you get some points into damage for power and aim shot, and maybe getting their cooldown lower.

Since your going 25spr/rest str your going to need to make up for that. You can either look for end/spr or end/dex gear. Imo end/spr gear would be better later on or if you'll concentrate on pvp (extra m.def for mages). Just make sure the end on any gear is near max and a decent amount of either dex/spr.

For the style of play. I can show you how I set up my skills. Click here [X]

All I can say is have autorun set up for some place thats going to be fast for you to turn on and off. For me thats spacebar idk about you.

In case you dont know how the skills look like I'll give them a run down.

1= Hp pot
2=SP pot
3=power shot
4=aim shot
5=auto attack
6=posion shot
7=bone shot(internal bleed)
8=multi shot(I actually switched this to key 9 today)
9=venmous shot
0=piercing shot(aoe venom)
-=natures mist
==pick up

shift +1=chain cast
Scrolls
Shift+7=deeper(95 skill)
shift+8=natures speed
shift+-=natures protections.
---

Hope that helps.

You know wrong, I was never beat by an archer even close to my lvl. 80% of the time I could beat the 8x +9 archers and I was lvl 69... mage definetly was doing something wrong, probably using your guide to mages.

Erm, i dont know you lol.. my friend skylerz was an archer. and unless you are from EU fiesta you couldnt have been the mage he killed. finally, my guide doesnt lie unless you want to point out some skills that are not the cooldowns i said they were..

If you have an character called skylerz aswel, then sorry but this was in no way aimed at you.

Furthermore, maybe its cause of my bad english.. but you seem rather rude for someone who has nothing to do with the subject. you havent even given any archer tips. stay on the subject, or just dont comment.. if you wanna slag my guide.. do it inda mage section. i dont at anypoint remember saying that anyone HAS TO FOLLOW it. although i do know the cooldowns that were rare knowledge before are now widely known about which i hope is thanks to people sharing the information that was added to wiki. lol. goodday 2u sir

@ Zwivix. thank you so much, may i ask though, is the sp consumption really needed? i am a lover of farming bosses etc, i dont see myself ever running out of money to buy stones

Idk when was the last time you logged on, but somethings have changed. Archers and mages are pretty even in pvp now. Well if the archer is any good he will be able to take mages his level. That is of course before lv 100...after that mages are op in pvp.
For natures mist and piercing shot, yes. With the max cooldown you'll constantly cast them. It adds up quickly, but you dont have to follow that exactly. You can try it without the sp consumption, but my guess would be you'll have to restone pretty qyuickly each time to get more sp stones, and that will cut back on your farming time.

I never said anything about me being on EU fiesta...

but yeah Zwiv I'm talking back in the 89 cap.

If I disagree with your thread I have every right to post my opinion on what you said.

If your refering to the Mage thread.. Dude, all I did was make a guide based on my experiences. I even asked others to correct me where I wasn't sure. If you disagreed with it. Why not say sumthing back then? You choose to do it now how many months later wen the guide is prettymuch outdated. I don't really understand what you was on about with the archer v Mage thing, I was simply saying what I saw. And that was a resetted ( not attributes spent) archer murder a Mage in 1v1 after much passing of arrows and spells..

It seems like you were basically saying I was lying as if you was actually there. Then to add to your randomness you be little a guide me and a couple friends spent a fair ammount of sc while making...
If you don't like it. Make your own lol. Zwiv has prettymuch answered my question, so I have no real reason to come back here unless someone makes an on the subject point instead of voicing there opinion on stuff far inda past..

I will try out the decrease sp consumption. I do get rather annoyed wen I have to go to restone early. If I find I don't like it. Ol purchase a stone erxtender

The SP consumption really helps. Other than that Zwi pretty much covered everything.

Why do you keep bringing up the past? I'm talking about you saying archers pwn mages in THIS thread...

o i see. sorry i didnt understand. i was simply explaining a case that i had seen. and also, after the stripe back the SC suite extenders etc.. the mage around 85ish usually has about 2.9-3.6k hp. and stone heals for 1080.. no where near enough to survive archers mainly poison's power/aimshots & crits.

Am not saying its automatically won.. obviously it depends on the player, we both have beaten archers our level after 8x.. but for us, its an effort (well of me anyway.. maybe u have a full +9 set). i jump into pvp kq. with my 3k hp, shoot some people. then suddenly find a stone fly towards me critting me for sumthing like 2088 damage. thats 2/3 of my hp gone in 1 powershot. i must then quickly stone find the archer, and apply stifle or fear depending on if i feel desperate. and blast them. b4 they used up the rest of there skills to kill me. i have decent sense of my surroundings.

nowthen last question for Zwiv. the difference indamage between bow and xbow.. if u was say helping with DD on helga. which would u use?

To be honest I dont think any archer on Teva has tried to use a bow for dd on Helga. We all use xbow so I dont think I can tell you which one is better. I do know however that xbow has alot more damage than the bow....I just dont know if the bows' speed makes up for its lack of raw damage.

Although natures speed t4 makes an xbow have the speed of a bow...So idk. But i would go with xbow.

I've been an avid bow user til I hit 80, now I switched to xbow. And no, I'm nowhere near the level that I'd be useful in a Helga hunt, but I must say the damage of my 80 xbow > the damage of my 70 blue bow (both +9). I always figured the faster attack speed of the bow would be more useful then the damage of the xbow, but I find myself spamming skills when I can and then the damage of the xbow is better than the speed of the bow.

I had +9 helm and boots, and I beat 8x archers when cap was 89 and my mage never lvled past 69 :P

Sorry mikey, but things have changed. Mages below 80 dont pwn archer face anymore unless they are cookied, full +9 end and specced to defend against physical attacks.

And even so, as a 64 archer I have killed 7x mages. So it is entirely possible that your face pwnage was an isolated incident. I have always been able to semi effectively combat mages my own level. It's a struggle, yes, but you will eventually come out on top because of the DPS you deal with your dots, not to mention if the mage you fight is retarded enough to think he can beat you while kiting (Which after the cap raise when mages got kiteable skills, most of them fall for this disillusion.) Kiting, Archers > Mages. Stand up fight Archers -/+/= Mages. It all depends on your gear now. dont forget charms and extenders too. After lvl 100...forget about it.

I am purely a bow user. I just like using bows. It's primarily an asthetic choice. I am not a power player, and I feel that bows are FAAAR sexier than xbows. Just preference I guess.

[offtopic]
And finally...

If I disagree with you and my opinion on what you said was that it made you sound like an asshole, still doesn't make it right to call you an asshole. While there is some validity in your statement, it allows too much grey area for troll-ish behavior to maneuver. It can possibly be taken the wrong way as well.

Idk, maybe it's just me, but you seemed pretty vicious in your replies.
[/offtopic]

First of all, it wasn't like I just beat ONE archer. I stayed at 69 for over 5 months and was contending with the capped so called best players on Teva. Secondly with archers I never used my fear etc, as they usually didn't die from that. Archers is the time to pop that chain cast drop two infernos and a nova and spam the fuck outta skills. And yeah whats wrong with a vicious reply? Care bares are for kids my friend.

If an 8x archer died to a 69 mage, then I dont think you were contending with the best players. I think you managed to find the seventh string...

http://trollcats.com/wp-content/uplo...is_invalid.png

Mikey times have changed...Hold on to your old time memories. But at 100 I could kill a 104 mage if we dont use any stunning skills.

Archers have more raw damage than mages now.

Thats why when Helga fears the Gladiators it always goes to the archers.

I couldn't tell if it was just in my head but he seemed pretty harsh to me. As mindspank saw it near the same way I did. Il now respond accordingly. M.G. What ever archers you beat at 69 must of been pretty fail. Actually your story itself sounds pretty fail. I mean o could possibly understand if you used fear to gain the win because the fear usually causes the archer to run over a mages aoe causing more damage. But you saying you didn't use fear could only mean that your (best archers of teva) would actually stand stil in the aoe rather than do the obvious and sensible thing and run out.. Archers nowdays start spamming mist and pierce wen they see a Mage is casting that aoe. And if they ain't they bloody well should be.. Also unless as spank said you have full +9 and possible charm. A bk xbow+9 from a str based archer would most likely 1crit you.. And if they know there gear you would hardly hit them. I mean seriously a 6x weapon vs's the 8x masters of evasion class? I don't think so. Let's talk facts for a second rather than the possibles. An archers xbow is as strong as, if not stronger than a fighters 2h sword. An archers powershot outdamages a fighters powerhit unless the fighter has debuffd their opponent with fatal slash.. Rawr damage wise.. An archer has the highest DD skill (8-9x I ain't checked 100+)... Now let's consider the fact that at level 87 an unextender Mage stones for 1080.. So you must of been stoneing for less... Fact that you don't have stifle.. Fact that you claimed not to use fear.. Here is what would happen. Aimshot.. 900-1100 damage. Fair percentage of ur health gone in 1 attack.. Powershot 1800-2k damage. If somehow you have the hp to survive both of these. I imagin by now you would stone.. For about 1000 hp (less if not extendered). Now considering you would not usd fear. As your so pro. Please enlighten us as 2wards what you would do now besides die of course, since the archer. Still has a wide range of poisons he ain't used + autoattack which alone would outdo your stone heal... Lol! Enlighten us Mage.

Remember to keep things civil.

I know I am speaking of times back then but as for the top guilds guys ya it was if you were on Teva you would know. Lannowar Elf, Stealthy, frankieros archer, all archers in cookies, collision, black angels, mighty army all dropped to me in guild wars. So don't insult me if you have no clue ;))

Lmao read it before the edit Mikey, but ill keep quiet.

Ya good ole times when I was a nub archer...didnt know anyone back then. Archers were the worst class to be...nobody wanted to even see us. All archers were quitting. But oh how the tables have turned.

I think this is the end of discussion. Back then archers got owned by mages now they own.

Eh I don't mind what I said but I don't wanna give sanastra the pleasure ;)

o dont worry my pleasure was gained the moment you said you didnt use fear, then was renewed when you mentioned the word guildwar. but nevermind that as your yapping on about the old cap. i dunno why a relic like you would enter the realms of the here and now, i didnt say, 'archers murder mages months ago when the cap was 89' am more talking about the hear and now. also, as you pointed out a few posts earlier... you dropped archers in guildwar.. not 1v1. which sorry to say.. but it dont mean jack. a guildwar is an anything goes TEAM 60minute battle. you could of been on SC pot for all anyone knows..

@Spank, your thing says that helgait bows are not worth it. why is this?

Never did I say only in guildwars, and also obviously the archer doesnt stand in there for 5 minutes, your assuming they did.

edit: also chain casts weren't used for fear they were used for aoes.

Helgait bow does 609 ~ 923 base damage

I cant tell you what a BKR bow does because, apparantly, they dont exist on Bijou because I got laughed at for asking to buy one. But let's base this on the 90 BK

Helgait unenhanced: 609 ~ 923
90 BK unenhanced: 394 ~ 616

Because both of them have the same +dmg after enhancement (+753) you are looking at roughly 300pts of dmg difference, approximate. Not to mention the BKR is also a T4 item so that means +753 dmg enhanced, but it will only be a difference of 200 pts of damage. What does this mean for a full dex archer like myself?

It's the difference between hitting a cookied 80 fighter for 71 pts of damage and 65 pts of damage. 1+ gems for a 6pt spread...

Not worth it.

Tested it on mobs as well. Only a difference for 50 dmg.

Untill they un nerf the helgaits, save your money for gear.

Ya dont buy the helgaits. Get them as drops. Although thats the harder path its the only way.

You didnt take in account that Hg max stats are higher than bkr. hg max stat is 70 idk what bkr is. Still not a big difference, but still good if you can get your hands on em.

*enters thread*

I've always wanted a HG weapon, even if it were a bow. A +0 BK does me no good ;c

rofl @ Bla~ahs suddenly appearing in the thread xD

*leaves thread*

the idea has popped into my head about dex as it does.. il search the threads to see if its written anywhere.. but can anyone tell me or link me 2 a place i can see exactly what effects full dex has..

e.g. i was told its good until 50.. but i dont actually know why. if i had 100 dex on build.. how much would my evasion and aim be raised by?

http://outspark.com/forums/showpost....postcount=1140

This is the first post I found that explains it. So pretty much at 50 DEX youll have 10% more evasion. and at a 100 you'll have 5% more bringing the grand total to 15%...Or you can add some points to STR after 50 DEX and get 62.5 more damage per hit. Since STR gives 1.25 damage for each free stat point.

Isn't it bad to have 3 stats though? Since I would think you'd have to put 25 spr anyways, after getting to 50 dex, is it really worth putting the rest in str?

Tbh it really is. But its always an option when you really just wanna be overall well built and not excel in anything.

Ehh I still say 25SPR rest STR is the way to go. Most archers eventually change to it and never go back.

That's exactly my build now-I've had 50DEX since level 45, and stopped exactly after that level (in which I found out that the perfect build is 25SPR rest STR, and not full DEX or 25 SPR rest DEX or 1:1 STR/DEX or whatever) and at level 90, I have only 30 points in STR. Trust me man, I'm freaking suicidal.

Wait, but I heard DEX is actually surprisingly good since nothing can even touch you... and since archers still do a shiz load of dmg it'll make up for lost STR from free stats, which you can gain back along with END from gear and enhancing... Idk, thats what I would think is good. Not good at archer stuff so I might be wrong but..

And DEX is helpful at 80s since BR mobs have a boost in evasion...

THEN AGAIN COULDNT U MAKE UP LOST AIM AND EVASION FROM SCROLLS? What? what? in the butt? Mmmmm /confused

http://www.laymark.com/i/m/m097.gif

I dont have a point in DEX and I don't think I have any points in my gear and I must say I barely miss. Even switching from a blue bow to an xbow I've barely noticed a difference. Maybe it'll come later, but at that stage I'll just use an aim scroll to make up for it.

Now I don't PvP as I fail at it no matter what so I can only speak from a PvE point of view.

Also the necessity of 25 SPR is rather dependant on the cash shop use and the weapon and license. Sure 5% extra is nice, especially when you cannot or will not use sc on crit suits. Lets say a proper weapon has at least 8% of base crit. Add a full license is +5%. Earrings +2%. Suit; depends on what suit but last I checked max is 15% and you can add some more with glasses 3% and back items and/or tails stuff.

That would be: 8 + 5 + 2 +15 + 3 + 3 = 36% (prolly possible to get more, but I can't be bothered atm XD).

Not too bad, and I don't think it's necessary to add 5 more from SPR.

If you don't use sc however it becomes different as you'll only have your equipments for crit.

Would be: 8 + 5 + 2 = 15%

In which case an extra 5% would be very useful (and I think very welcome).

As for me, yes I use crit suits and I have +25 SPR. THe highest crit rating I've ever achieved was 15+12+3+3+2=37%. However, when I dont use a crit suit I don't really notice a difference in the amount of crits I get.

So judge for yourself.

Yea.. I honestly think sumwhere between 10&20% crit is bugged.. I mean my fighter with just 5% crit from build and earrings regularly crits up to 8 times in a row. I add a crit suite (tuff cookie) and the difference is not noticed.. I must say thou this is probably dude to fighters auto atk between skills.

My Mage needs to have about 25-30% crit b4 I can say he crits good. And even then there are times when a duel and not crit for the entire duration.. Then again am not really taking aoe crits into account

on subject. So 100 points in dex adds 15% evasion... Soooo what does that mean? Is it 15% chance I will randomly evade a kallap? Or is it base evasion + 15%..?? And is it your base evasion after it's been dex'd out? Or is it 15% of what my evasion would of been had I not added dex?

Also, is there or has there ever been an sc item that adds points to evasion.. I swear I have seen headfones but it's so long ago I can't remember if the game was fiesta or not

heh..... we sure do.....

._.

[ninja]yes, that was sarcasm .-.[/ninja]

Its your base evasion +15%. The 15% doesnt mean that every 1 outta 10 hits on you will be a miss. It just means that every hit that is rolled it has an extra 15% of missing. So you might get lucky and that extra 15% helps and makes someone miss on you 10 hits in a row, but other times it might not help and you'll get hit every time.

Dex is really random and there isnt a certain way that I've found to find a concrete outcome.

Str is always constant thats what I like about it.

Archers do a shiz load of dmg yes they do >_> I think...

Yes we do.

EXACTLY! Sero being all sarcastic mmhm gonna kiiiill uu