Apathy.
 

"We're losing these children to apathy"

That's a quote from Donnie Darko, and it seems to be making alot of sense. There's absolutely horrible things going on in the world, and people simply resign themselves to it being the normal thing, because it is. But i implore you, we must not accept these things as normal. Evil is not relative. Honestly... if we dont all change, i dont think that humanity has more than 1000 years or so to be around. we'll either wipe ourselves out or we'll lose all that makes us human. Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World" seems to have been almost prophetic... if you've never read it, please, pick it up as soon as possible.

We're losing the world... and it seems as if there's nothing we can do. But we can do our best to change. We can't accept the death of ANYONE, whether it be rich or poor, as a normal thing. We have to be outraged at violence.

That's what i think makes us human. Perhaps im insane, but i can not be contented in the current state of affairs. *Sigh* Alas... Please, if you have any views, whether they be agreeing or disagreeing with me, state them... i want more insight in this current heartbreaking situation in the world...

I guess I don't really see where your view of the world stems from.

Yes, there are things wrong in society and with the world. Yes, we can do a lot to fix them.

And people are.

But these problems are not necessarily "new." They are simply problems that humanity has been facing for as long as humans have been humans. It's not as if this generation or this era has, all of sudden, gotten drastically worse than previous times.

The world will never. Never. Be perfect. Humans just weren't made that way. Can we solve world hunger, poverty, diseases? Yes. We can. But humanity itself will never be perfect.

Obviously not. but we can stop much of the needless mass violence.

Im referring to the troubles in ireland, for one. i didnt even know about them till a couple of years ago. why arent they more broadcasted? i would think such an outrageous loss of life over such a petty quibble would be seen as something outrageous, and people would be putting alot more attention towards it.

What about Ian Thomlinson, previously mentioned in my last thread? he was murdered by the police, and i would never have known about it but for reading a comment on a Clash video. It wasnt given much attention to by any but one of the brittish media outlets.

I simply dont see why so much violence over petty things is neccesary. i know that murder is going to happen either way, but at this point it's cruelty to the innocent, and mass genocide to the unknown.

Also, the fact that when a rich man dies it's all "OH NO HE WAS SUCH A GREAT PERSON SOB SOB SOB" but when a bum dies, they just burry him and move on with it. All human life has equal value.

Be realistic.

.

Just a thought about this comment:

When a famous person passes away, it's most probably because they've done something useful in their that attracted recognition for the society and probably deserved the recognition (not saying this is always the case).

Yet, how do you think a person becomes a bum? Of course I'm sure there's various exceptions where people had something bad happen to them that was out of their control, but I doubt all bums had gotten to that stage by bad luck. Most of them probably became one because they didn't do what they should've done to avoid that kind of position.

I'm not saying that you can put a price on someone's life, and one person's price would be higher than other people, but that's pretty much just how it is. There's a reason why some deaths receive more attention than others, and it's not because we see that human lives do not have equal value.


Edit: ha, Ralath kind of explained it better than me.

If newspapers were to run every single act of injustice or violence that occurs in the world, there wouldn't be any more trees left.

If anything, we are more able today than ever to be aware of these things because we have things such as Internet, satellites, television, etc. We have more time and the ability to know things than any other time in human history.

To say that there is a lack of coverage is relative.

Jikanu... have you ever done anything wrong? Or are you a saint?

If you have ever done anything wrong (which, I'm going to take a wild guess here and say you have), then why did you do it?

Violence is just doing something wrong on a larger scale.

Sadly, disagree. What makes Ian Thomlinson more special than any other joe on the street who gets the short end of the stick? Why choose to devote media coverage on him and not others? Why did you choose to make a thread about him but not others? Clearly, there is more worth to him than the others.

All human life has value. But equal value? I'm not sure about that one.

Not all rich and famous are worth it. What about the oil company executives? They've done nothing more than rape the soil of the earth and destroy it, but i doubt anyone brings that up at their burial service.

but my point is that we put a level of importance on each person, when in fact we're all just as valuble as the next person. Also, what about bums who were born in the ghettos and have no way to get out from their poverty? im sure no Oil Company Exec.'s Son is gonna be a bum, regardless of how much he does for society. Hell, he could lounge about on daddy/mommy's trust fund money and not do a thing, and it would still be a bigger deal. it's like the queen of england complex. She serves no purpose, has no power, but she's held in such high fricken regard it's sickening.

didnt see ralath's comment till i posted, sorry.

He has no more value, he's simply the only recent case of police brutality resulting in death i know of. Please, i implore you, bring up more cases and it will do nothing more than support the fact that government is corrupt and must be dealt with in some way.

You seem to have this view of the world as in it has this potential to be some sort of Utopia.

While many people hope for this... it is impossible. Nor is it realistic or idealistic.

The world needs evil, to see what we can fix, what we can make better, to learn.

Is the world honestly as bad compared to what it used to be? I mean really, look back into history.

And in continuation on the bum subject... most bums have done things to get themselves there. It's not like someone was like "Muahahaha, I'm going to take all of your stuff!", and took everything. Most have gambled it away, had drinking or drug issues. I know this because of the city I used to live in...

I had a homeless man bugging me for money, claiming he was hungry, he hadn't eaten in a week. I didn't give him anything, why? He was drunk.

Another man kept bugging my friend and I to give him some money so he could get something to eat. But he had just told us he just went and bought himself a book to kill time since he has nothing to do since he's homeless.

Another man kept asking my friend and I to give him some money one evening because his wife kicked him out, his kids wouldn't take him in. We offered to buy him some food, my friend even offered to get him a hotel room for the night. He kept declining us and asking for money.

They all wanted money, for their addiction.

The world will never be as innocent as it should be.

Jikanu, do you even bother to read my entire post or just the last paragraph? Because if you only read the last paragraph, then I'm not going to continue. ~_~

Certain people get more media coverage because more people care about them. When the Queen of England dies, she is going to get a hell a lot more media coverage than the bum on the street. Why? Because more people care about the Queen of the England than they do the bum on the street.

Is it wrong for them to care more about the Queen of England than the bum on the street? I don't think so. Who's to say who people should care for more than others.





And I ask you again, have you ever done anything wrong? Or are you a saint?

If you have ever done anything wrong (which, I'm going to take a wild guess here and say you have), then why did you do it?

Violence is just doing something wrong on a larger scale.

Humans are imperfect beings and we will make mistakes and do things wrong. There's no way around that.

The only way it'll ever be impossible is if we give up.

and it's just as bad as before, it's just more covered up. you dont think those who use illegal immigration to their own advantage (i.e. basically enslaving them and threatening them with the feds) are just as bad as the plantation owners? it's just well covered up. no better. and no one since John Lennon really seems to have made a great reach out for world peace.

Politicians have never done anything but fix the mistakes of other politicians. Makes you wonder why we ever took them in in the first place.

once again, didnt see your post till after i posted x.x

sorry if it came off that way x.x

obviously we'll make mistakes, and im not a saint either, of course o.o i previously addressed that. there's no stopping violence, but we can stop the massive scale that it occurs on. We can stop the hatred, we can stop the anger, the depression, the fear. Even the smallest of acts can change a persons life forever. a simple smile to show them that there IS hope out there. the butterfly effect.

what more did the queen of england do than the bum, other than being born rich instead of poor? is that fair and just and right?



Really? They're spending a HUGE amount of time on Obama getting a burger. obama taking a train ride. obama getting in a car. they're obsessing over stupid little things, while IMPORTANT things are happening that we should know about.

*Sigh* we're getting off topic though. Im talking about the overall lack of caring for things in the world, not just thomlinson, or a bum, or the queen of england. people obsess over celebrities, but dont really care that thousands are dying due to preventable causes. it makes no sense.

Well let me ask you a question back. Just curious.

What do you reckon the society/world should do once it reaches your ideal utopia?

Im not saying that we'll reach any perfect eutopia, just a decent, sane world. CHILDREN are dying for no reason. The innocent are being gunned down, or blown up, or killed; i understand the occasional murder, but... we're talking mass murders in africa and ireland... it's just horrible ._.

Anyway, i assume people would just try to live their lives in happiness. Why do we need money, and power? alot of what massive stars buy is senseless. there's just no point to alot of it... if you live happily, with one you love, some decent entertainment, and enough cash on the side, why do we need much more? why do humans need to rule over others?

I just want things to make sense.

First of all. Mini-rant.

Depression is a BIOLOGICAL condition. It's a chemical imbalance in the brain. For anyone that thinks the depression is just a psychological condition and that people can "will" themselves out of it by thinking happy thoughts is just deluded. To get rid of depression would be to change human biology.

/end mini-rant

You can't stop anger, fear, hate anymore than you can stop happiness, love, fill in the blank.

You say we can stop the violence on a massive scale. How? By smiling at people? If you can't get rid of the root causes of anger, fear, hate, jealousy (and you can't) etc...., then there will always be violence throughout the world.

The world is neither fair nor right.



Like they've always been.

Not a good thing. Something we should try to change.

But I'm stating a fact here.

Your broad generalizations are imprecise at best.

Humans want different things. Even you.

By depression, i meant sadness, not the clinical depression, my mom is clinically depressed, and it's generally used as a term for deep emotional sadness too. sorry if i offended you x.x

And we can fight back, not with violence, but with peace. Ever heard of Martin Luthor King Jr.? Or Gandhi? or perhaps Henry David Thoreau? all men who used peace to protest.

And the world SHOULD be fair. we shape the world, so why not try to make it fair and right?

once again, im not looking for a utopia, just a sane world. i want people to be able to ACCEPT differences, not hate for them. We all are different, so why not just accept that and move on? that's what causes most genocide; difference in class, or religion, or skin color, or culture, or whatever... Murder will always exist, but genocide need not exist.

Because humans are imperfect beings.

It doesn't really get much simpler than that.

Imperfect, yes, but i dont see how imperfection limits acceptance. Anyone can accept the person next to them as a human being without knowing anything about them. Why cant that same rule apply when you DO know them?

For example, before i got to truly know you, i could accept you as a fellow human being; then, as i did get to know you, i learned many of our beliefs obviously differ; however, i do still respect you as a human being, and as someone who i can coexist quite peacefully, and at points even cordially with. why cant that apply with the rest of humanity?

Maybe because one things that contributes to imperfectness is the lack of acceptance in some people.


Oh and nvm my previous question.

Religious, political and moral views. Not everyone looks at them the same.

Thus they have different views on how the world should be ran

Some men believe he should be allowed to have 15 wives, and that he should be the only one to see their bodies. While this dance club owner believes he should only have one wife, and he loves that his wife is a dancer who wears quite skimp clothing. He can show off what he has and the other men don't. Some people think women should vote, some think women have no business in that. Some think you should be allowed to marry your cousin, some say thats down right disgusting. Some say you go to heaven when you die, some day you sprout into a dandelion.

Hitler believed the perfect human beings were people who were what he wasn't. "Aryan", some would say blonde hair and blue eyes. But her meant basically... non-Germanic. Christian, straight, skinny, mentally and physically healthy. Anything other than that, you had to die.

Surely that isn't what you picture the perfect human.

Religious and personal beliefs should have no issue, as i mentioned in my edit (sorry for putting it in so late x.x), the only ones i can really see having an issue are political ones, which is where the difficult part comes in.

But religions usually teach us and tell us that people of any other religious view is wrong, sinful, awful etc.

Religion is a big part of peoples lives in the world. So if a Christian believes incest is wrong, but this other religious group thinks its the only way for humans to survive and become "pure", what do you do? The Christians look at that as if its wrong...

Anything thats wrong is generally seen as evil...

So you're back to square one. You can never make everyone happy, much less agree.

And many of the largest conflicts in history have been entirely or partly because of religion.

I just meant the voting or not example used earlier... Though honestly, a constitution would solve that. just lay down the basic rights and limits to those rights, and checks and balances to prevent any tyrants, and you should be set...

But still, i dont see why differences arent just accepted. why is equality and understanding so hard for human beings to grasp?

And to a point, yes, hyper. but that brings up the corruption of beliefs, and the faith vs. religion concept and all of that... so it's questionable on the intentions of those using religion as their excuse.


Heading to bed... be back in the morning, i guess.

Time for the dorkiest quote ever.... but I find it true.

On a side note Jik, suppose you were given the choice between saving a thousand bums, and a genius professor who has just discovered the formula for a miracle drug which can cure AIDS and cancer, who would you pick?

Just a light reminder that this is Mature Discussions so please refrain from posting spam. x] Thank you.

Edit: I have deleted any posts that were spammy so the above reminder does not apply to any of the posts you see now before this.

It was actually a serious question, En. If he thinks every life has the same value, there is only one answer that he can pick.

Most would choose the 1 guy. But then again, he could potentially in return, put a lot of doctors and companies associated with keeping these people alive, out of job. And also, in the end, contributing to overpopulation. One reason why many people say they do know the "cure" for cancer and AIDS, but do not release it.

Yeah, that is another factor. In Jik's world, a person will be lucky if he can get a square foot for himself, because of overpopulation.

People do care. Everyone's doing something - whether it's dealing with their own shit or dealing with other people's, it doesn't matter. The world's constantly changing, and for you to say nothing's getting done is pretty naive and unfair.

You'll only get 1 side of the world if you only believed the Media. If you don't think the Queen is worth reporting on then don't read it?

Use your time to volunteer for a charity, and physically make a difference instead.

The world doesn't fall into equality by themselves, people's gotta make a difference, whether you make a difference for the worse (e.g. people contribute to violence), or people making a difference for the better (e.g. offer councilling to stop violence).

I think that Media exaggerate stuff most of the time... there are MILLIONS of charities that are unheard of, and are helping people less fortunate people every day. They don't get media attention, but they're making a difference.

Not being reported doesn't make them of less values, just like these charities that help people and are not reported. They don't say "OMG the paper didn't talk about us, we're not worth anything". They get Thank Yous from the people they've helped, and that's the value.

I dislike but don't necessarily despise people who are apathetic. I often wonder what they want to do with themselves, let alone to the people around them. Though, people do change. Let their conscience guide them.

I care about others but some of them just don't respond in the same way. I often ask myself why I should care then. Well, it's the way I am and I don't want to change that.

You may see some cases when the selfish will thrive. It is injustice. I don't get why it is allowed to happen, either (can God explain this?). I just know that it does and accept it. For every matter, there is an antimatter. For every good, there is an evil. It characterises humanity and more broadly, life as a whole.

While I agree with a lot of people here, that the utopian world will forever be a thing of idealism simply because the human race is a collection of personalities - good and bad, I do dream of a world of peace and perfection. It doesn't hurt to believe, even in the slightest sense but don't nurture this conviction that our world will be all flowers and candies, it simply won't happen.

Like the tale of the Pandora's box, in the end, hope was the salvation. The same reason why we've been fighting, for any cause, any purpose. This is my personal approach to the utopia vision.

Exactly what is wrong with being selfish? Being selfish just means having concern with one's own interests. It isn't "injustice" if the selfish thrive.

There is nothing wrong with being selfish. Everyone loves himself/herself. It's the interaction with other people that makes selifishness a dislikeable concept. Injustice, here, is relative to my view.

While I have, over the years, distanced myself from the person who shares Jikanu's current view, I admit that I still have, as I put it, hope.

I don't like the fact that Jikanu is not listening to the inputs here. However, I still like the fact that he still has this faith in a better world. I hope that he has also taken actions to advance his vision, like Hessah suggested (charity work, community work, etc.).

all of us have the choice if we wanna keep the world from poverty global warming and so on. Only U can make a difference as people say. So it all comes down to one thing if u choose to act in a way