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-   -   Trotskyism (http://www.fiestafan.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19240)

Jikanu 04-01-2009 12:41 AM

Trotskyism
 
I just read about this political ideology which kind of combines democracy and communism... it was founded by this guy named Leon Trotsky who was a colleague of stalin early in the communist revolution, till stalin took power and exiled him... if you've ever read "Animal Farm", by George Orwell, Snowball is meant to represent him...

anyway, it seems rather interesting, because it combines a communistic system with that of a democratic system, saying that in a democratic society with capitalism, an elite class will eventually take over, as in a communistic society without democracy, a facist ruler will end up taking over.

anyway, it seems like a pretty interesting ideology to me... what do you guys think?

Hraesvelg 04-01-2009 12:44 AM

Many political philosophies look good on paper.

Jikanu 04-01-2009 12:46 AM

The same could be said for the one that's currently ruling over most of the world.

Hraesvelg 04-01-2009 12:53 AM

Yep. We're human, we'll always develop flawed systems. Garbage in, garbage out. If we ever have a way to produce virtually unlimited basic needs, I think a communistic society might work.

Warning_Shot 04-01-2009 01:09 AM

"Daddy... are we socialist?"

"Ho ho! Ah... No son, we don't call it that here."

Jikanu 04-01-2009 01:11 AM

Not neccesarilly. Communism may be easy to live in, but it also limits freedoms, and keeps a ruling party in power, forcing you to worship them. (see 1984.)

maybe if it was a society in which resources were spread, but freedoms werent limited, it would be worth it, but otherwise, no.

Eru 04-08-2009 07:03 PM

Just a coupla things...coz all this stuff is very interesting to me...

1. Communism is actually a form of economics (specifically macro economics)...not a system of government. I know it has been touted as a government as in "communist china", or "communist russia", but it is a misnomer. Remember what USSR stood for? :)

2. Communism has never actually been pulled off by an entire country...usually (as Hrae infered) coz the humanity gets in the way.

3. Communism has proved to be successful dozens of times...but always at the level of "village" or "town" or some other small populus.

So back on Trotskyism...like any form of government...it probably works well on a small scale with folks that want to be a part of it, and have the freedom to leave if they dont think it fits them.

Diydiva81 04-08-2009 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hraesvelg (Post 315742)
Many political philosophies look good on paper.

Duh.

Anything that ends in an "ism" sounds good in theory (i don't know bout capitalism. lol) and at originally in real life, but as always things fall apart.
Same with most revolutions; Russian, Chinese, Cuban (all communism) & Iranian (fundamentalist).

Jikanu 04-08-2009 10:07 PM

Capitalism sucks too. The theory behind trotskyism is that, since in a communnist system, a single ruler will take far too much power, and in a capitalist system, an elite upper class will rise, if you mixed a democracy and a communist system, you would be able to eliminate both an all-powerful government, and destroy any chance of an upper class rising. Plus i like putting the Anarcho- prefix behind it, therefore making it a system of government in which the people band together, eliminate injustice, and share resources.

And Trotskyism IS also democracy, therefore giving the people to leave if they dont like it

Diydiva81 04-09-2009 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jikanu (Post 319665)
Plus i like putting the Anarcho- prefix behind it, therefore making it a system of government in which the people band together, eliminate injustice, and share resources.

But there's a catch as well... With Anarchism, there's no total structure, no actual goverment. (look at Somalia) It's sound nice to live in a world like that, but sooner or later, new problems arise (It kinda figures into my idea of "The #1 person in everyone's life: Themself").

Love the principles, just not the actual living breathing form of the beast.

Ralath 04-09-2009 10:18 AM

Are you guys talking about economic systems or forms or government? The two of them are clearly different but you guys keep mentioning both in the same sentence.

Eru 04-09-2009 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jikanu (Post 319665)
Capitalism sucks too. The theory behind trotskyism is that, since in a communnist system, a single ruler will take far too much power, and in a capitalist system, an elite upper class will rise, if you mixed a democracy and a communist system, you would be able to eliminate both an all-powerful government, and destroy any chance of an upper class rising. Plus i like putting the Anarcho- prefix behind it, therefore making it a system of government in which the people band together, eliminate injustice, and share resources.

And Trotskyism IS also democracy, therefore giving the people to leave if they dont like it

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralath (Post 320051)
Are you guys talking about economic systems or forms or government? The two of them are clearly different but you guys keep mentioning both in the same sentence.

I don't think the op understands the difference :)

Diydiva81 04-10-2009 12:13 PM

I don't know if this is going to help but I wiktionaried (god, is that a word? lol) some of the above "isms" just for simplicity sake.

Quote:

Anarchism
1. The belief that proposes the absence and abolition of government in all forms.
2. Specifically, a political and philosophical belief that all forms of involuntary rule or government are undesirable or unnecessary, and that society could function without a ruler or involuntary government (a state).

Communism
1. The ideology of political parties that use the term Communist in their names, usually Marxist and Leninist.
2. The socio-economic system based on such parties' ideologies.
3. (US, informal) A state of affairs perceived as oppressive, overly arbitrary, or totalitarian.

Socialism
1. Any of various political philosophies that support social and economic equality, collective decision-making and public control of productive capital and natural resources, as advocated by socialists.
2. The socialist political philosophies as a group, including Marxism, libertarian socialism, democratic socialism, and social democracy.
3. (Leninism) The intermediate phase of social development between capitalism and full communism. This is a strategy whereby the State has control of all key resource-producing industries and manages most aspects of the market, in contrast to laissez faire capitalism.
4. (Classical Marxism) The international communist society where classes and the state no longer exist.

Fundamentalism
1. (religion) The tendency to reduce a religion to its most fundamental tenets, based on strict interpretation of core texts.
2. (finance) The belief that fundamental financial quantities are the best predictor of the price of an instrument.
3. The beliefs held by those in this movement.
4. Strict adherence to any set of basic ideas or principles.

Jikanu 04-10-2009 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralath (Post 320051)
Are you guys talking about economic systems or forms or government? The two of them are clearly different but you guys keep mentioning both in the same sentence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eru (Post 320444)
I don't think the op understands the difference :)

No, im referring to the way in which communism has been used and viewed thus far.

I know communism is an economic system, but usually, it has been used in a facist system. Stalinism, for example.


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