Originally Posted by Hessah (Post 302707)

I was lead to believe that the STR in freestat is "stronger" than STR in gear..

Something about the STR in free stat ignores the defence of the mob / person..


The reason why you don't hear people suggest 25 STR/ rest SPR, is because STR doesnt "cap" the way SPR does.. SPR's crit % drops after the first 25 points.. but STR, continues to add 1 dmg.. so if you want 25STR/rest SPR, you may as well just go full SPR... (IMO)

But I agree that I think more crit the better... SPR seems to work really well with archers, because their bow/xbow has a good crit rate to start off with...

Originally Posted by Hessah (Post 302713)

if you play a mage, you'll know the crit rate of a mage SUCKS

2-4% compare to 7-8% makes a huge difference..

Crit of cleric's not too bad i think, fighters are so-so...

but yeah, mage probably has a slower attack rate, I find that SPR in mage is pretty useless, works better in INT...




whether STR gives a backbone to crits.. that's.. a age long debate..

Originally Posted by Hessah (Post 302760)

Green Mage Weapon has always had only 2-5% crit..

Green archer weapons have generally 6-8%



It has always been like that, no updates changed the crit rates of weapons...

Originally Posted by lvramire (Post 302768)

It's because everyone says that STR from equips doesn't bypass defense unlike STR from free-stat. So it's pretty much nerfed/nullified.


Crit. rate has always depended on weapon type, and Archer's have always had the highest 'natural crit %. It's not like Mages can equip Crossbows xD

Originally Posted by Jikanu (Post 302612)

The widely accepted build for archers is 25spr, the rest str... but i've been wondering, why not reverse that? or maybe even go pure spirit with str equips? here's my theory:

if you have a high crit rate, with a bit of str backing you up, isn't it better than a low crit rate with a bit more damage per shot? i mean, if you get crits say... every 2 hits, for 400 damage, isn't it better than a crit every 4-5 hits for 800 damage? plus, you could factor in the extra magic defense and mp you'd get from spirit, plus the fact that you can just get str from equips while spr from equips doesnt add crit... spirit starts looking a bit more prosperous. to me, at least. =/

Originally Posted by Triumph (Post 303160)

I seek to challenge that statement, actually.

Numerous tests have indicated that in most circumstances, a pure build will defeat a hybrid build. It seems to be that KFiesta/JPFiesta both prefer pure STR and INT builds. This argument I won't touch on; it has been argued extensively, and it is your choice exclusively. I know for a fact CB testers preferred a pure build; all the Legends of Isya were pure builds as well. I'm sure that things have changed in the past year since my departure.

As you may know, the critical rate is a statistic added onto each shot, meaning that if you have a 25% critical rate, it is a 25% chance of landing a critical. This does not mean that you will get a critical hit once every four hits; this just means that a probability of 0.25 exists of hitting a critical hit.

Whereas the damage output does not deviate much, you will notice a damage over time difference. However, it is really insignificant, as one extra shot from the hybrid build will equal the pure build in terms of damage.

Secondly, as Hessah has stated, the critical bonus levels off. It reduces to 0.1% after 25, and after 62, I believe it levels off to 0.05%.

Thirdly, freestat points are points added onto your damage output. For example, assume your damage output is X, calculated by your weapon, enhancement, armor attributes, etc. You then add Y, which is your freestat points in terms of damage. 25 damage may not seem like very much, and it may seem contradictory to common sense, but it does more damage.

Thus, as follows:

Pure build: X+Y = damage
Hybrid build: X+(Y-25) = damage

Originally Posted by Triumph (Post 303160)

Thus, as follows:

Pure build: X+Y = damage
Hybrid build: X+(Y-25) = damage

Originally Posted by Triumph (Post 188232)

Alright, I'll clarify.

As for the spreadsheets, my personal spreadsheets are destroyed. My former laptop is gone, destroyed by a female entity known as my sister. However, if it's possible, I'll see if Icy will divulge his. His were better than mine, anyways.

Secondly, I'll recite what I can remember from testing. Since I really have nothing better to do, yes, I spend time doing math for a game. For want of information rather than walls of text, I'll say this:

Without any critical equipment, the damage margin is smaller between builds. For instance (and this is pure theoretical data), assume that a level 79 mage does 325 damage average on a level 79 fighter in PvP. The theoretical data spread will be this, criticals bolded.

325, 314, 329, 714, 336, 322, 312, 326, 335, 320, 330, 341, 335, 324, 334, 337, 342, 310, 309, 308.

= 6903.

Your critical ratio boost is assumed to be the base critical of a standard wand at 3%. Consequently, your chances are less than ideal for criticals. Now assume that you have a hybrid build, with 69 INT/25 SPR. Your damage will be decreased by roughly 30 or so.

Hypothetically, you have a critical percent boost of 8%, which is almost three times the boost from a pure INT build.

295, 284, 299, 560, 306, 292, 564, 558, 296, 300, 311, 305, 294, 304, 307, 312, 280, 279, 278.

= 6424

Regardless of critical, the hybrid build does lower damage, despite a higher percent for criticals. This margin increases with the addition of say, a 15% critical boost set, with the further addition of earrings, license, and glasses, at a further addition of 9%, culminating to the addition of 24% to both builds.

Pure build - Critical rate: 27%: 650, 628, 329, 714, 336, 322, 312, 326, 335, 320, 330, 341, 335, 324, 334, 337, 342, 310, 618, 308.

= 7851

Hybrid build - Critical rate: 32%: 590, 284, 299, 560, 306, 292, 564, 558, 296, 300, 622, 305, 294, 304, 307, 312, 560, 279, 278.

= 7310.

Each time, it is proven that a pure build will do more damage. However, these calculations should not be assumed to be fully accurate. The critical rate is based on a static rate: sometimes, half the hits may be criticals; others, none. Consequently, however, in theory, pure build defeats hybrid builds.

If you still don't trust it, go compare a level 79 pure build and a level 79 hybrid build. Collect data for both, using the same weapon and no other equipment. Then add as much critical equipment as possible. I've conducted studies for this as well: pure build defeats a hybrid build.

/end wall of text.

/run tl; dr.exe

Originally Posted by Jikanu (Post 303446)

what about pure spirit then? what's the result for that?

Originally Posted by Triumph (Post 303452)

Use pure SPR only if you do 1200+ damage on mobs.

Originally Posted by Triumph (Post 303189)

Alright, I'll clarify.

As for the spreadsheets, my personal spreadsheets are destroyed. My former laptop is gone, destroyed by a female entity known as my sister. However, if it's possible, I'll see if Icy will divulge his. His were better than mine, anyways.

Secondly, I'll recite what I can remember from testing. Since I really have nothing better to do, yes, I spend time doing math for a game. For want of information rather than walls of text, I'll say this:

Without any critical equipment, the damage margin is smaller between builds. For instance (and this is pure theoretical data), assume that a level 79 mage does 325 damage average on a level 79 fighter in PvP. The theoretical data spread will be this, criticals bolded.

325, 314, 329, 714, 336, 322, 312, 326, 335, 320, 330, 341, 335, 324, 334, 337, 342, 310, 309, 308.

= 6903.

Your critical ratio boost is assumed to be the base critical of a standard wand at 3%. Consequently, your chances are less than ideal for criticals. Now assume that you have a hybrid build, with 69 INT/25 SPR. Your damage will be decreased by roughly 30 or so.

Hypothetically, you have a critical percent boost of 8%, which is almost three times the boost from a pure INT build.

295, 284, 299, 560, 306, 292, 564, 558, 296, 300, 311, 305, 294, 304, 307, 312, 280, 279, 278.

= 6424

Regardless of critical, the hybrid build does lower damage, despite a higher percent for criticals. This margin increases with the addition of say, a 15% critical boost set, with the further addition of earrings, license, and glasses, at a further addition of 9%, culminating to the addition of 24% to both builds.

Pure build - Critical rate: 27%: 650, 628, 329, 714, 336, 322, 312, 326, 335, 320, 330, 341, 335, 324, 334, 337, 342, 310, 618, 308.

= 7851

Hybrid build - Critical rate: 32%: 590, 284, 299, 560, 306, 292, 564, 558, 296, 300, 622, 305, 294, 304, 307, 312, 560, 279, 278.

= 7310.

Each time, it is proven that a pure build will do more damage. However, these calculations should not be assumed to be fully accurate. The critical rate is based on a static rate: sometimes, half the hits may be criticals; others, none. Consequently, however, in theory, pure build defeats hybrid builds.

If you still don't trust it, go compare a level 79 pure build and a level 79 hybrid build. Collect data for both, using the same weapon and no other equipment. Then add as much critical equipment as possible. I've conducted studies for this as well: pure build defeats a hybrid build.

/end wall of text.

/run tl; dr.exe

Originally Posted by Triumph (Post 303772)

Doubtful, considering damage in Burning Rock is like 300-500...