Remi's Find Debate
 

Mhh... i think that Remi's Rare Find's would be illegal in my country, because they let persons under age gamble with real money. :zomg:

But not in return for real money; would it still be illegal?

Don't worry, it's not legally gambling because you always win something... it's just that sometimes that something is very, very valuable :laugh:

Are raffles legal in your country?

Well you put money in, and you win a prize... that's "technically" gambling...

Yep, that's pretty much the gist of it. If you spent the SparkCash and had the chance to get nothing in return, there would probably be legal implications. But since everyone is a winner it doesn't even fall into the raffle category.

A great Definition of what Gambling is. (Look for others goolgle "define: gambling")

So lets see if that Definition fits on Remi's Rare Find's.

wagering money or something of material value
U can do both, u can wager a fixed amount of SparkCash or 3 Items u won before.

on an event with an uncertain outcome
It is fully uncertian.

with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods.

Yep the only intend is to win material goods, the payshop items.

So it looks like Remi's Rare Find's is indeed Gambling.

Edit:
So the next Question is if its a form of Gambling that is appropriate for kids to play.

Kids would still need their parent's/caretakers financial information or consent before getting any Sparkcash.


I guess if the parent's okay with it...?

Ha, quoting wiki. Funny. Anyway, you don't wager (bet) the SparkCash or previous tokens. You trade them in for another turn. You might get something of lesser value than the original amount of SC, but you still get something. Is it a chance? Sure. But I don't think it falls into gambling/gaming as something regulated by law, at least in the US. Otherwise those little carnival games where you pick a duck out of the water would require a gaming license.

Is there some risk involved? Of course. But that's like saying buying life insurance is gambling that you'll die before you pay more into it than you'll get out. Not every risk-taking endeavour is gambling, except perhaps in the colloquial sense.

I hope this post makes as much sense later in the day as it does now.

So its a guaranteed return on investment(ROI)?
Is that so? So if give 5items back, to get another try i have a return on investment? ... No i dont have, i just lost 80% of the money i spended without getting anything.

Not to mention that these Items are untrable, so the items are actually worthless if u dont want them. Or at leasts just 20% of what u spend for them. (See above)

Even in the actual value some of the item are more and some less worth what u spend.

So in the end i can not agree: Remi's Rare Finds does not have a guaranteed return on investment.


What i think of Remi's Rare Finds is that: Outspark wants to trick people in spending more money. Unfortunatly kids cant always restrain themself from trying again and again until they get what they want. And Outspark supports that behavior, actually, i believe, they count on it.

And just like i said before: These items are wortless if u dont want them, because thinks are always worth as much, as people are ready to pay for it.

First, I would say something about the spelling, but it is not the point here.

Second, this thread is not about whether or not it is gambling or not, although, it is NOT. You pulled your definition from Wikipedia which is not even recognized by any educational institution as a reliable source of information, since the information can be changed by users at any given time to say anything they want. If you are going to debate a topic, I would suggest finding a better, more reliable source than Wikipedia. That definition just seemed to fit what you wanted it to.

Third, if you wish to continue this debate about whether or not it is gambling, then let me try and explain it in a different way, (although, I think that you already have your mind made up and no matter how many times people prove you wrong, which as been done several times in this thread, you are still going to say you are right). Let’s for the sake of the debate say that it is gambling, because everyday that you wake up you are gambling. Everything you do is a gamble. When you wake up in the morning, you do not know if when you step out of bed, you won’t fall, crack your head open and suffer brain trauma. When you walk out the door of your house, you do not know if you are going to get hit by a car crossing the road or backing out of your driveway, therefore you are taking a chance, a risk, a gamble. So, fine, we have determined life is a gamble and everything we do is a gamble.

Now, let’s move on to your comment about worthless (that is how you spell it) item. What may be worthless to you; might not be worthless to the next person. Lady-Loki finds extenders very useful to her, me, not so much. I find the glasses with Crit. Worthless; Lady-Loki finds them useful. Lady-Loki finds the summer boop outfit worthless, I find it useful. Therefore, you cannot say that anything in the game is worthless. Everything is useful to someone; it just may not be you.

Okay, now as far as Outspark using kids to make more money. This has debate written all over it. Kid = a minor who has parents that are responsible for their actions. Kids do not have means of making their own money and buying Sparkcash. Kids do not have credit cards, checking accounts, or the means to drive themselves to a store to buy the various forms of payment for Sparkcash. If they do have money, the parents are responsible for teaching their kids the value of money. If the parents do choose to put Sparkcash on their child’s account, they are responsible for teaching their child how to spend that money. The parents are responsible for setting the limits for the child. Parents should be involved in knowing what their child is doing on-line and step in when they feel it is necessary.

My guess is Outspark is trying to reach the older people that play and pay, not the kids that they have no way of knowing if their parents are giving them money to spend or not. Therefore, their primary targets are the working adults that play the game. As an adult, we are responsible for our own actions and should know how much we can afford to spend on a game.

Also, look at it this way. You are shopping on-line; you are buying items that equal $75.00. As you go to check out, a little box pops up that says, “FREE shipping on orders $100.00 or more.” You go to a store that is advertising, “$25.00 dollars off purchases $100.00, $50.00 off purchases $200.00, so on and so on.” They are called Marketing ploys. Perfectly legal and all companies do it. You do not really need to spend that $25.00 more to save on shipping, you already have the items you wanted; however, it is to get you to go back and see if you can find something else to spend more money on, hmmm…. Maybe even something worthless, sine you don’t really need it, otherwise it would have already been in your shopping cart.

Okay i will answer on every text passage(is that right right word?) separately without Quoting them, because it would blow my post out of proportion.



Im sorry that my english is not so good and hope u can understood what i meant anyway. If something is unclear: plz tell me so i can correct myself.
And i do think that Wikipedia is a some what reliable source. If u have a better definetion of word "gambling". Please share it with us.

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Your assumption would be correct if gambling means that an random event may happen. But as far as i know gambling means something different. So the whole logical construct is not correct.

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U are totally right, and i guess u have missunderstood me. My point was that the worth of very item u get is defined by the person who gets it. There is no other person who could trade the item with. So the items u dont want, but u still get, have no worth. Not for u, not for anyone.

if u did not get what i mean, read on. If u understood just skip to the next part.

To show u what i mean. We have the black Pegasus and 2 persons called A and B.
A loves the black Pegasus and wants it under any circumstences. B thinks that Pegasus is butt ugly, and he would never use it.

Now both ppl get the black Pegasus.
A got something of high worth, but
B got something worthless.

If u still didnt got it, relax a little and read again =)

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I agree with u. In the ideal case the parents will prevent that there kid spends to much money. But my point was and is that, i believe, Outspark is trying to trick them into spending more money.

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Why do u think so? Do u think an educated adult would play Remi's Rare Finds? Any adult should know that if they are playing a game like these they will always loose in the end. Just like in a casino.

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I am sorry but i dont see a relation to the topic: "Is Remi's Rare Finds a gambling game, or not?" Which was the topic we were discussing right?

When you get something in return and you CHOOSE to NOT WANT IT yourself.. you cant say that its a zero return in investment.

You put a deposit in a bank (invest your money), they give u $6 for interest, you give it away to a homeless and u go "that bank gave me zero return coz i threw the $6 away"... like that makes sense to you? LOL

Remi's rare find is like.. Lucky Dip in primary school... if Lucky Dip is considered "gambling" in your country then... fine.. i'll give u the credit...




EDIT: (Why isnt anyone posting! Now i hv to edit my post to avoid double post LOL)

OK, now I consider myself to be an educated adult. I work, I've been to school + uni for 15 years. Is in a job that not anyone can just step in a do.

Yes, i DO play remi's rare find. In the LONG run, I believe that I win in the end, instead of lose. I've got a raccoon, bug, pegasus, 2x crit glasses, 2x crit suits, red eyes, thew away 2-3 def charms...

If you add the values up, I would've got at least 27000SC worth of stuff, for only $20 (14,000SC)

So i cant agree with you on that one

First of all, I started this thread to tell people of the great things I have gotten from Remi and to point out that I got T4 Gold Nines. NOT for a debate on gambling, legalized or otherwise, but, as you seem intent on badgering your point I will point out:

Herein is the answer to your issue. To you it is considered gambling, to many it is not. With as many varied opinions on what constitutes gambling it will depend on what any given individual considers gambling.

Additionally, I believe Outspark has corporate attorneys on staff that would have stopped them from deploying the Remi feature if it were illegal by the standards applicable to North America (where this version is licensed for).


I personally take offense with this statement considering I am an educated adult as well as a Management employee of a major corporation and I play Remi's Rare Find's because it is not only fun, but I have received several very nice items (refer back to my opening post please). You are making assumptions with that statement that only shows that you apparently suffer a mental scotoma regarding the variety of persons subscribing to Outspark (BTW, you probably wont find Mental Scotoma in your wiki so here is a link for you: Mental Scotoma)

I again wish to point out that not one of your posts is truly applicable to my OP. Perhaps rather than spam up my post regarding my good luck and fortunate Remi finds you should have just started your own thread and titled it appropriately "Is Remi's Rare Finds a gambling game, or not?"


Mods, please move all of the gambling debate posts from my Remi’s Good Fortune Thread or close my thread completely since it has steered so far off course.

Lol.

How is it even gambling?

Honestly gambling is the spending of money with the chance of getting nothing in return.

You're just buying a random item out of the shop for 1500SC.

There's nothing to it.

If it increases revenue because it's getting people to think, "Wow, I can get Iron Case for only 1500?!" then people go spend 100$ to get that pull out of the find, then applause to Outspark.

The player will have the iron case still, plus items that they didn't even expect to get/want.

If every time is a win, that's hardly gambling. :)

I wouldn't consider it gambling because you always get something back.

I humourously called it "casino ad" whenever a GM announced "play remi's blah blah" but reality is I never paid it much attention, so it never occurred to me that this may be a form of gambling.

For me, it's all about freedom. If you can afford some cash and really want to play it, go for it. If not, just joke about it like I always do. :laugh:

Outspark has to make money somehow to keep their business going. I simply regard this as one of their (successful) attempts at doing so. Again, it's good enough that they gave us a free client and server(s) to enjoy ourselves. Let's just leave this as it is. :D