guess ill go first :P
 

so this thread may wind up a flop...but eh...here goes:

Within the US, what do you guys think causes more disadvantage within society, race or zipcode?

In my experience teaching (college level) lower-income adults, I have seen many students of many races exhibit all ranges or drive, intelligence, and ability. However, what I see working against most of them is the fact they live in an impoverished area which seems to breed a certain sub-culture which is hard to escape.

The reason I question this against race, is that many of the students I work with claim that it is race which is holding them back. Being a white male I cant say I’ve ever felt much negative societal pressure, so I’m willing to admit there may be more to it than simply zipcode, but I still tend to think zipcode has more to do with the issue.

Also I realize this may be different in different areas inside the US (ie: Southern vs. Midwestern, vs. New England, vs. Western states)

I’m also interested in an international opinion as to how you see these two aspects working within *your* country.

Race and zip code are equal in terms of disadvantage for those less fortunate.

When it comes to race, those of African American descent will tend to experience more intolerance, disrespect, and racial slurs than those who are not. Similar to those with Hispanic descent in the United States; many people automatically characterize anyone that is Hispanic to be automatically Mexican, rather than, say, Peruvian. Some will go further and claim the individual in question is actually an illegal immigrant.

Similar with zip codes. First off, I live in a reasonably well-off area. My county is fortunate to grace Wikipedia's top 50 highest personal income counties. I don't notice too much of an issue with zip codes here, but I know for a fact that those people from New York and other prominent areas will tend to sneer at someone who mentions that they are from a lesser prominent area, or perhaps a less wealthy region. Teenagers are much the same. Nocal vs. Socal is one example. My school teems with people who are Aberzombies who insist on wearing Abercrombie, who sometimes scorn people who wear Hollister. I have traveled through certain areas that are not as fortunate in terms of wealth, and I'll be honest: I did shudder at the thought of living in such places.

Do you guys mean zipcode by the area that you live, rich/poor suburb?

Yeah. We also call it "the other side of the tracks" <--- although that can have many meanings. Not just race, but also financial boundaries. Kind of like, I am considered middle-class, so the ritzy neighborhoods would deem me from the wrong side of the tracks, because I do not live in a 2 million dollar house.

I've been to California. You can HAVE it. Never getting a return on a friendly "Hello!" and getting looked at suspiciously for letting an elderly woman (with fewer items) go in front of me in a grocery store then getting nearly mocked for bringing a hostess gift in the form of a bottle of wine...fie on it.

Is it not wierd how different our cultures are simply based on where we live IN the US? Things in the South are so much different. Not backwards different, just different.

Theoretically each state is or groupings of states in the US is the equivalent size of a country in Europe. Taking that into consideration you will have different cultural beliefs, languages, social interactions.

Also considering the OP on this, one would also have to look at the home structure of the individual. I am a firm believer that a child from a two parent home has a better chance than a child from a single parent home. Not a rule but a factor. It is easier to raise a child when there are two active parents guiding the child. It is harder when there is only one parent.

Just a thought.

Easier, yes.... maybe. It really depends on the situation, the parents involved and the child. There are too many factors that could play a part in determining what is best and what is not.

Granted I have seen some amazing single parent moms and dads out there.

Like I said it is not a every single parent child. It is harder on a single parent to work, pay bills, do the shopping, cleaning, teaching, and directing of the child. This is a lot to ask of a single parent.

And when I say single parent I do mean the ones that have little to no support from the other parent. I have seen this in my own family and have taken my beliefs from my own experiences.

I think it is a bit of both. But then again, I think people should learn how to work it. Make change, adjust. I'll use where the life style begins. High School.

I used to live in a poverish town, I actually went to the nicest High School in town(out of 4). My freshmen class was about 850, my Senior graduating class was 420, and that was the best rate it had been in 5 years, and also, this was the best in the city. That basically means less High Schoolers were graduating in the other schools.

With stereotypes, if you want to have a nice life style and more potential to have a nice future, do not grow up in the city(unless in some cases.. depending on how you were raised).

Urban areas tend to have...
1. Lower class housing
-Increases your chances of living in a not-so-good area
2. More minimum wage jobs available... less higher wage jobs.
-With that... more high school drop outs which means they're less likely to get a nicer job, so adults who should have careers, now have jobs reserved for students.
3. More crime
-getting involved with gangs and getting in trouble with the law=not so good
4. More desperation
-(with lower-class jobs means less money, less money for rent, bills, things you need/want etc) which leads to more theft, drug dealing, etc.
5. Drug problems
-Can lead to a life dealing with drugs... it can lead to felonies which isn't good for record and getting jobs.
-Can lead to life with gangs
-Can lead to a violent life style.(My sister was a crack addict and was almost killed 3 times.. she wasn't raised to be this way)

Ultimately, the cities spend so much money on the people in the city, they do not get the time, nor support(people want help first) to fix it up.

Of course, this is completely avoidable. These are individual choices. But most are convinced they have no chance of rising in society, so they conform with what is around them, and they raise their children to believe so too.

My parents chose to leave. The city isn't always the cheapest place to live. I live in a fairly safe town in a very cheap house.

@Hess
Technically a zip code (mailing code) is a small local area. A full 9—digit zip code is an actual house or building, but the more common 5-digit is, I believe, the most granular ‘area’ in the US.

However, by zip code I guess I just meant the neighborhood and surrounding area in which you grow up. Where your friends live, where you go/went to school, where you shop…basically your local community.
--


To me it seems that everything that has been brought up would at least loosely fall into “environment” especially when contrasted to the alternative in the OP which was race. So it sounds like, while race may be the cause discrimination in some cases most ppl here feel that it is not the norm or causes *significant* societal disadvantage and that it boils down to an individuals choice on what to accept and how to react?

Well, here in India, it isn't as much of racism as caste discrimination. It all started of with the dominant religion here in India, Hinduism. I will make my views very clear. I do not like the concept of religion, and I strongly believe it is religion that causes most barriers between people.

What Hinduism basically tried to do was to divide society into 4 basic types. The first and supposedly "best" type was the teachers, priests and other men of supposed "intellect". The second type was the type of physical strength. The police force, the army, the security guards and so on. The third type was the traders, businessmen and the shopkeepers. The fourth type were the downtrodden. The type who did the menial jobs, sweeping, cleaning drains and other "dirty" jobs.

This system failed terribly, what with the introduction of "caste heredity( I hope I got that word right :p)". What I mean, is that a son of a barber must remain a barber, no matter what his intellectual capacity, and no matter if he could become greater than Einstein or something.

That really mangled things, and now the Indian government in an effort to "bring up" the downtrodden classes, has introduced a system of reservation where anywhere from 10-50% of the seats in an educational institution, the vacancies in a corporation and job openings in a company are reserved for these "backward classes". This does nothing except foster a hatred between these "backward classes" and the "normal people". There are no definitions as to who is "backward" and who is "normal". The "backward" people have certificates declaring they are "backward"(which can quite easily be forged by the way) and get an easy entrance into wherever they want, while a "normal" man of exceptional ability night not make the cut because a "backward" guy got in. And this does not even take into consideration the corruption and other red-tape involved in the issue.

This has led to further division in the classes, and is slowly choking the country, and is the basic form of racism present in India.

P.S. I like this section! :)

I'm a White Female from the south, Georgia. I am also a lesbian and have lived "on the other side of the tracks." It is hard enough to be a high school dropout but add gay and "ghetto" and you never get a moments peace. I have put up with a lot in my 18 years but nothing like the disrespect and criticism I get from the people where I am living now.

If you don't spend at least 40 dollars on a haircut you are poor, eating McDonalds means have no money, you can't wear that brand of clothing, blah blah blah..

I can only imagine how hard it is for people of different races living here..:cries:

True, it really depends on the home. I divorced Spirit's dad when she was barely over a year old. I truly believed my kids would be better off being raised by me alone, even though it meant great struggles to work, pay bills, teaching, and guiding my kids. But the other option was to raise them in a home where they would watch their father being physically & mentally abusive. And that has its own set of negative influences. I was fortunate to have met and married a truly wonderful guy within the first year. But I was still willing, at the time I left, to struggle through whatever lay ahead to keep my children from growing up in a house full of hatred, abuse & anger. I would rather have them grow up poor than thinking that was how people treat each other..

So, while a nuclear family in a 3 bed, 2 bath split level with a picket fence is a wonderful concept, we still have to make individual choices based on our situation. "What's the lesser of the two evils?".

I don't want to step on anyone’s religion, but I believe access to education should be based on ability more than religious classification or financial benefit. Unfortunately we have a lot of intelligent people who do not get the opportunity for higher education because they lack finances or recourses to overcome these obstacles. And I expect some would say at this point "There are grants, scholarships etc, they just have to go after them.", but the problem with that is that many do not have access to the resources or the people to assist them in seeking those resources (not all school counselors help all the students process through the confusing array of grants and scholarships. There is still the favoritism issue.)

While you can't change being a white lesbian female (almost redundant) from the south, you can affect some of the other issues. You reap what you sow. so if you practice The Golden Rule (Treat others as you want to be treated) then it should not matter that you are white, lesbian, female or from the south.

As for the dropout and ghetto part: You are 18 and you live in the United States. You legally control more of your life at this point. Up until you can legally leave your parents home you basically have to reside on whichever side of the track your parents are on. But at 18 you can now take control and put forth the extra effort to make things different for you. You can choose to do something about being a drop-out - research options for getting your diploma through a local community college or vocational school. If you work on getting the high school diploma you then start working on the ghetto issue. It won't be slow and it won't be easy, but you can do it.

I grew up very poor family, 7 kids, one income. It took me a few years and a bad marriage to understand that I actually do have the ability to change my life and world. It was not, I repeat: NOT, easy early on, but you have to have determination and you have to expect & accept that there will be some very hard times and some very down time, but if you keep your focus on the goal at the end then you will get through those times and one day you can refer to yourself as a prominent white lesbian female (almost redundant) from the south.

All this to say: There are too many forms of discrimination to say it is race or zip code specific. We have also seen a religious aspect thrown in by Vasu, and while he was referring to India, I think we have religious discrimination in the US also. I also believe we have people of all races, religions, sexual orientation and geographic regions who have either or both felt the affects of discrimination or been the harbinger of discrimination.

I also believe discrimination, of one form or another has been on this earth for as long as man has and as much as I wish it would completely cease to exist I realize that it probably will not. Sad, because we are all humans, we live, we breathe, we love, we hurt, and we die. Human.