I think we have certain social instincts, as do a lot of social animals. But a particular system of ethics or morality is a societal construct.

Is that a slight revision of opinion?


Because they don't seem to mesh in my head.

Why... Religions are taught by family, friends, and society.

I must have misread somewhere.


The only reason I popped-in was to answer Jik's inference that morality came solely from a deity. Guess that's done with.

Many animals do shy away from sex and try to avoid it. They don't keep doing it mindlessly. And the reason we find rape wrong is because it has been ingrained into us by the environment around us. I won't deny that most morality today has stemmed from religion. I am merely saying it can exist full well without religion.

Rules which make him behave malevolently. He set the rules, he can abolish them if he really wants to do good.

I'm only saying that faith isn't "something higher". It's just some poppycock invented by man.

Yeah, when good is done in the name of God, hurrah, because God and religion have done something good. When bad things are done, it's just the individual people.

Like I said earlier, most of morality today is because of religion, but that doesn't mean morality is completely dependent on religion. It can be practised just as well without a deity, as I showed.

And you are not the first to assume that the Bible was the progenitor of the Golden Rule. It wasn't. Regardless of who proposed it, then rule can be reached by common sense, and not necessarily by fear or religion.

At this point, perhaps it can. However, i'm not fully convinced that it could before laws existed. Regardless, i concede the point.

And the reason that only Good things can truly be credited to God (in Christianity, at least) is because Greed and Hate, the main causers of sin, are products of Original Sin.

Pretty convenient isn't it?

Anyway, you didn't say what you thought of his malevolence.

I don't concede that point. I think it's a chicken/egg situation. I think the rudimentary ethics were in place before the idea of a deity was constructed in order to codify the morality. The thought of all humans having similar social instincts is much more plausible than being inspired by a multitude of deities. We've always used stories to explain what we can't understand. I don't see why a sense of right and wrong would be any different.

I did, acctually. i said i dont believe he is.

You forget that, in Catholic doctrine, at least, The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all one. It wouldnt be malevolent to sacrifice himself for us. We dont know the rules of the game by which God plays, so it would be impossible to call him malevolent.

Once again, i must call into question the need for this discussion. it's impossible to prove or disprove God's existence, or to understand any kind of being on a higher plane.

It's not just the Jesus incident. It's also the host of battles started with his blessing.

Then why does religion claim to be able to?