Talk about being self-centered, and yes this is directed towards you Tequila. There is absolutely nothing that gives you the right to look down upon others regardless of level or other characteristics. And you are right, we don't know you, I don't know you, heck..I've never even heard of you. But I can make a logical conclusion about who you are just by the rude comments you made. You criticize Lilian for what she has done and hasn't done, I don't know but something about you having a total of 4 or 5 lvl 5X characters is screaming out at me, "NO LIFE" So basically, you have nothing in life that you can do but play this game, level up a bunch of characters, look down upon people who actually have a goal in life, and deem yourself Almighty. Reasons for this probably resulted from your lack of friends while growing up, others looking down upon you, and possibly because you are still living with your parents and haven't realized that there is such a thing as the Sun. But you're right, I don't know you, but I'm sure that some of this is at the most 80% correct. So I'd be nice if you don't talk about what people have done so far when clearly it is you who hasn't done anything at all. And so what if Lilian and O-Mie are having an "Internet Romance," they make each other happy and care about one another. You having an issue with this and criticizing people about "love" only shows me that you probably don't even know what love is. You're probably the insecure type of guy who wants to make sure you find out the definition of love by searching through mountains of dictionaries in every single language before you make a commitment to someone, that's if you even know what commitment is. And no, commitment to this game isn't the same type of commitment I'm talkin about, sorry to confuse you there buddy. Just so you know, internet relations do work out, I have numerous real life friends who have found love on the net and gotten married and are still in love. And I don't know Lilian or O-Mie, but from what it sounds, yeah it might take them a long time before they can go out to get ice cream, but HEY! atleast they are going to be going together, unlike you who probably just got off your chair, walked out of the basement and into your parent's freezer for ice cream. So when you realize that the world doesn't revolve around you and your computer screen, then I advise you to go outside and see the real Sun, because I hate to break it to you, but that light bulb in your room isn't the sun.

I apologize for throwing this thread off topic again, feel free to remove this post.

I would like to mention here, that the Charm of Strength really unbalances this game.

The percentile seems to be calculated at your base weapon damage, which basically means the effect can be exponential depending on your enemy. It seems like a license:

80% (full orc) of your weapon with enhancements (+9)

Then everything is applied onto that, defense ratios, strength etc.

Quite honestly, I doubt anyone here wants to get hit by an axe user using this Strength Charm, along with a +9 axe, or most +9 weapons for that matter. This effect grow's the higher level the weapon.

Yes, we know the classes have their problems, Mages got gimped on hp stones, fighters got gimped on SP, and so on and so forth.

But I dont see many people in this thread looking at the real problem. The advantage you get from this charm.

Yes, we could just purchase the cash shop items so we balance out, but tell me, is it really fair to condemn those players who dont have a lot of cash to spend? Did it ever occur to some of us that people may not have the means to purchase all these wonderful things? Remember, there are some people who play for fun - whatever that fun may be.

Dont get me wrong, if I wanted to I could buy all these charms, buffs, and consumables. But I believe I shouldn't have to in order to participate effectively in a guild war. Do you catch my drift?

Once again no one gets it...The hp extenders/defense extenders, stones, and the bloody 100k hp potion will make BATTLES DRAG ON for ages. Even with the Charm and a +9 axe.... that was my point from the beginning.

Angel have u ever thought that a fully upgraded +9 armor set with the defensive charm would COUNTERACT the +9 axe?

Getting seriously off-topic.

The cash shop seriously counterbalanced the game, that much is obvious. The inclusion of Perfect Miles have made +9 a very common thing to see. Likewise with an HP potion that can be spammed as many times as the owner desires, so "fairness" and "honor" can be thrown out if you're going for an unbridled guild war that encompasses the entire map.

To be honest, Mont'ka, if you want to have a decent Guild War, then go for one with rules. Go request a war from one of the more respectable guilds, ask them to not use cash shop items. I don't think many guilds who deem themselves "honorable" would refuse that.

As for Tequila, he was decently well-known in the Closed Beta 1 and 2 era. I won't take a damn side on this, since it's already a flame war. Relatively speaking, he knows what he's talking about, though.

As a final note, does it really matter what someone does with his or her time? It's his or her time. Let he or she do what he or she wants with it. No, I won't point fingers, but hopefully you all understand what I'm implying.

how can we "get it" if u keep switching your focus from one an another? i've already made my comment on teh 100k HP Potions, which you ignored (fine by me), and u talked about the extenders, which i made my reason, then u ignored my thing about ur extender and go back to 100k HP pots... -sigh- i just felt like i'm wasting my time... talking to a brick wall... nvm...

And thanks triumph, i think u've said wat i wanted to say, except u can explain better than i can....

I spent about half an hour a while ago trying to type up a post in here, but I kept getting side tracked and things so I gave up. Then I saw this:

Pretty much what I wanted to say in my original post.

Cash shop items cannot be traded, correct? Therefore, not everyone can take advantage of this. We can't say "oh he uses CS, IMA USE CS ITEMS TOO" because not all of us can afford this.

I can see what Renin is trying to say. He isn't complaining about how it's unfair, but how the CS items affect the "quality" of PvP. I, myself, don't care much about PvP at all, but I still understand why others can care about this because it's something that appeals to them.

I mean, I personally wouldn't find PvP "fun" if the person I'm trying to kill (assuming they are about my level) constantly use CS items to boost their stats/heal themselves/whatever. Like Renin says, it makes the battle drag on. It's like sitting at my computer, pressing the same keys over and over again to spam skills while the other person is pressing their keys over and over again healing themselves. That isn't fun, well, not to me anyway.

Personally, I actually find guild wars "fun" when we get to run around ganging each other up, killing people quickly that we don't even have the time to react, etc. Of course, there is a limit to this and I won't go into it since it's off topic, but what I'm trying to say is that CS items slows the whole thing down and takes the fun out of it. Fast paced guild wars/PvP are what I called fun, not sitting around, jamming a key and trying to deal 100k+ damage until the person has used up their CS item.

Sure, we can use CS items to counter that, but the fact is, some of us can't buy CS items! CS items are something exclusive to cash shop users only.

There are still many other things that makes things unbalanced like Yosei said earlier in this thread, but CS items just makes the matters worse. It's not helping the situation.

Also, I would like to ask that no more posts involving flames and personal attacks be posted in here. Not happy about someone? Don't post. You got flamed? Ignore them. Leave comments about other people out and stay on topic.

Any more flaming posts, whether it'd be sticking up for yourself or supporting a friend, will resolve in an infraction.

this is something i wanted to say myself but just didn't take the time to. if/when something is added in so that you get some kind of worth while reward for GWs then the use of cs items will become more common by those that can get them. in fact i wouldn't put it past people to try to build a guild of cs users just so they cna win GWs easily. i suppose it wouldn't really be a problem if they made cs items tradeable but unfortunately i don't think they'll decide to do it any time soon if ever.

This sounds like every PvP topic on every game I've ever played when there are items avaliable for purchase (either through the legitimate channels or blackmarket). Those who can find a way to get them will, and they will win/dominate.

I'm afraid the PvP system as it currently stands is totally broken, even before the introduction of CS items. I enjoyed PvP in other games in the past, and I'll probably get into it here once kinks are worked out. Of course, I've always seen PvP as more of an end-game activity, when things become closer to equal. Your milage may vary.

Hmmm.... cud i have a saying please?
Probably get flamed again though

So....if ur considering CS item a "cheat" in GW
imagine this you are a warrior
verus another warrior
you have normal equip +0
he has a sword +5
will u call him a cheat just because u dont have money to buy elrunes n lix and the weapon again if u break it?
(not adding +9 as those are 87% cash item refined)

It is called "using what you have"
if u disagree with it
u might as well tell the Game Scripter/Creator to give archers,mages,clerics
AoE stun too
so-on-and-so-forth


Although i have no cash item
I have to make a stand in saying
no flames thx
onli discussion

Life is never fair, some people get the upper hand
It is if u could find a way to go round it
Not complaining about it

Okay so i spent the last 30 minutes reading this x.x

I've had no Guild War experience on Fiesta whatsoever. However, I have to say one thing. The name of this battle is called "Guild Wars". If you are talking about cash item affecting 1v1 PVP, then I understand, but the topic title says that it affects "guild wars".

I said before that i haven't had any experience on Fiesta guild wars, but I've participated plenty in Ragnarok guild wars (Which is so much better lol). The point of guild wars is for a whole guild versing another whole guild. So what if the other player has cashshop items, 1 person can't take on 10 other persons. If your whole guild fights together, then that person can be pummeled to the ground easily, even with the help of cashshop items.

Sure, 1 or 2 people in the other guild may have cashshop items. So what do you do? You plan your guild strategy, and target them first. Guild wars isn't about 1 person versing another person. It's guild versus guild, so small factors like cashshop items which affect individuals won't affect anything in guildwars. It's not like every single person in your oposing guild are cashshop users.

By the way, this is coming from a person who doesn't use cashshop items(that's me if you haven't figured it out :) ).



Oh: And by the way: In my opinion, I reckon the game designer did not consider the balance that is required for PVP when they made the game. For example in ragnarok, each class has a special ability that is balanced. Acolytes can chose to be a full support healer, whilst swordmen can chose to be tankers. Their skills and abilities are limited. There is always a strategy in guild wars. Take out that acolyte first! Anyways, my point is, The game designers have yet to show us that they prepared the classes for a balanced pvp gameplay.