Fiesta Fan Forums - Deity Existence

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jikanu (Post 339699)

There IS proof, but once again, you would claim that it's false, and cooked up by the Church. You'd claim it was all just lies. i tried to show proof earlier in the forum (i.e. the incorruptibility) and Hrae dismissed it as nothing more as wax dolls. He has no proof of them being wax, but he insists that it's just a lie cooked up by the church. It gives the feeling that no matter what proof i give you, you'll just deny its credibility with no real credibility of your own.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jikanu (Post 339699)

However, I dont see how it is that a being who sent himself to be tortured and killed in one of the most horrible ways imaginable to free US is Malevolent.

Because he is the same person who personally killed all the firstborn of people who did not even do wrong, and has ordered all kinds of rape and pillage, while he could have avoided that. Coming to the point, even the death of Jesus could have been avoided. He just seems like a bloodthirsty maniac to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jikanu (Post 339699)

And you dont really have faith in that; you're using that as an example to how you feel religion is ridiculous. However, you could take that, and say that your faith in the invisible pink unicorn gods/goddesses is nothing more than your soul making an attempt to call out to God, and that he sees and accepts that.

Way to miss the point. The point is that just because you have faith in something doesn't mean it's true. And I could take your faith in god's existence and say that it is your soul calling out to the FSM.

Talking about seeing and accepting that, why didn't he "see and accept" the "callings of the soul" of all the people murdered in the OT who didn't worship him?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vasu (Post 339710)

But the "proofs" are so distant and don't really correlate.

It goes like this:

1. A bunch of saints died and didn't decompose.
2. Therefore god exists, and is benevolent, and is omnipotent, and omniscient, and x and y and whatnot.

Because he is the same person who personally killed all the firstborn of people who did not even do wrong, and has ordered all kinds of rape and pillage, while he could have avoided that. Coming to the point, even the death of Jesus could have been avoided. He just seems like a bloodthirsty maniac to me.

Way to miss the point. The point is that just because you have faith in something doesn't mean it's true. And I could take your faith in god's existence and say that it is your soul calling out to the FSM.

Talking about seeing and accepting that, why didn't he "see and accept" the "callings of the soul" of all the people murdered in the OT who didn't worship him?

You have a very distorted view on the OT. He never murdered anyone who didnt first oppress and attack his people. Im sorry, but the Jews in the old testament went through alot of crap. From Exodus, to Maccabees :/

and what the incorruptible saints DO prove is that there's SOMETHING to Christianity. Unless, of course, you're claiming that these people were just fungus-resistant.

My point is that nobody need have been murdered, and yet he let it go on.

Quote:

and what the incorruptible saints DO prove is that there's SOMETHING to Christianity. Unless, of course, you're claiming that these people were just fungus-resistant.

Correlation does not equal causation. It's like saying this:

1. Only John Doe can jump up 6 feet high.
2. John Doe is a Buddhist.
3. Therefore only Buddhists can jump up 6 feet high. (AKA The fact that he was Buddhist helped him jump 6 feet high)

EDIT: So your argument goes like this:

1. Some saints' bodies didn't decompose.
2. The saints were christian.
3. Therefore their christian-ness helped them not decompose after death.

No, because jumping six feet high is naturally possible, albeit hard. It's not natural to not decompose. It's not something that you can train yourself to do, or anything like that.

And it wasnt murder so much as slave rebellion and an attempt to teach humanity to keep their hands off of the isrealites. he took care of his people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jikanu (Post 339717)

No, because jumping six feet high is naturally possible, albeit hard. It's not natural to not decompose. It's not something that you can train yourself to do, or anything like that.

Replace that with ten feet, and what do you get? It was just an example.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jikanu (Post 339717)

And it wasnt murder so much as slave rebellion and an attempt to teach humanity to keep their hands off of the isrealites. he took care of his people.

Isn't everyone "his people"?

At the point in time, the isrealites were the people he chose who would demonstrate his law and set the example for the rest of the world.

It's not quite the same, seeing as it's not defying the laws of nature.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jikanu (Post 339721)

At the point in time, the isrealites were the people he chose who would demonstrate his law and set the example for the rest of the world.

So at that point in time, he didn't give a rat's a** about the rest of the people in the world?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jikanu (Post 339721)

It's not quite the same, seeing as it's not defying the laws of nature.

Jumping 10 feet into the air doesn't defy the laws of nature?

You know what? All of this isn't relevant, this naturally possible thing. Correlation still doesn't equal causation.

What, then, do you suggest is the cause?

and i suppose this all goes back to the first covenant with abraham, really.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jikanu (Post 339728)

What, then, do you suggest is the cause?

To tell you the truth, I don't know. But then again, has any research been done on the matter? Has a scientist/researcher been allowed near the bodies? Have they studied the location of the body to see if there was anything at all that could have prevented decomposition? Has an unbiased person analysed the situation?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jikanu (Post 339728)

and i suppose this all goes back to the first covenant with abraham, really.

In what way? You haven't really replied to my post. Do you mean to say that at that point of time, unless you were a jew, god couldn't care less about you?

No, i meant that God made a promise to abraham that his decendents would be numerous, and so he had to protect the Jews. Besides, they're the only ones who had acctually ever listened to him, at the time.

Also, i havent done too much research on that part of the topic. i'll check it out if i get the time.

i THINK i read something saying that a doctor was allowed to check... im not entirely sure if i read it right, or if the source was reliable though. i'll check it out, though.