Well, that explains everything, let's close this thread now.


:rolleyes:

The question is WHY you believe.

Also I can see you've obviously conceded you cannot prove any of those things I mentioned.

That's where the faith and feeling part of human nature comes in. Sadly, you cant see and know everything from the point we're at. it's as if your life consisted of standing behind a wall and trying to look at a painting on the other side. There's something beautiful behind it all but it's simply something that we cant see, and we wont be able to see it till that wall comes down. If that painting's not there, whether it be a picaso, van gough, or whatever (i.e. the different theories on who the Deity/Deities is/are) there's not much point in even trying to walk around the wall, other than to enjoy the walk. But for us, as we walk, and see beautiful things (i.e. Love, Happiness, Family, Peace, Childhood, Etc.) You cant help but think that there's a point to it all; a point to all the beauty and happiness (true happiness, not the happiness that a life of sin brings you), and that there's some master plan behind it all... Some final beauty, some eternal true happiness. some kind of beautiful endpoint. Besides, as you see the bad in the world you cant help but think that the mass murderers who sit on the top of the food chain (i.e. politicians) have to have some kind of cosmic, spiritual karma coming back to them.

And do you mean the list of things? The only way you can know that for sure is through dying. there's no deffinite proof i know of. perhaps you should consult one who has taken theology courses?

To answer your question finally, i believe because i have faith that there's a higher being that acctually cares and sympathizes with us. someone who makes all the crap you endure through life worth it in the end. i cant help but think that this isnt the end. that those who lie and cheat and kill succeed in the end. that those who are virtuous, but misfortunate, will die lonely and unhappy only to rot and decay. To sum it up, i believe in God because it's the only way to make sense of this world. Plus, all the teachings of Christ make total sense to me.

Brilliant. That is life. Enjoying the walk. I find pleasure in it. I like getting together with my friends for a game of football, or just to talk. I like hanging out with my family and talking about everyday things, and enjoy the company. I like life. I like living. It gives me pleasure as well as pain, but the pleasure seems to make it worth it all. Correction. YOU can't help but think that there's a point. YOU like to have the world the way YOU want it. I do not live in hope of a beautiful afterlife, or in blind unprovable belief that the "bad guys" will be punished "later". Sure, life isn't fair, but I've gotten over it. I've grown up. I don't believe in fairy tales that the prince marries the beautiful young poor girl. Most of the time the prince marries some other rich girl. I find it wrong maybe. But I don't try to rationalise it with some untrue concept.

One more thing: Just because the lack of god makes life pointless to you, doesn't make god exist.



Maybe YOU should find the answers to those questions before you subscribe to and believe a religion wholeheartedly? I HAVE posed these questions to every theist friend I was close enough to, a few agreed they didn't really know what they were on about, while a few were adamant that they just "knew" god existed.

Wrong, you believe in god because it's the only way you can have the world the way you want it to be. You can't settle for what you have, and what you see, so you decide that by thinking god exists, the world is fine. I'll repeat, just because believing in god makes your world better, that doesn't mean he really exists.

Yeah... I'm not gonna read all these pages with all the different opinions expressed or I'll be stuck on the comp for the rest of the weekend probably XD

As for me personally, I do not believe in a god. I don't think there is one 'being' able to control anything and everything that happens in the universe (or just earth). Besides, if there was a god why is there so much wrong in this world? I'm talking about wars, poverty, hunger, climate change etc.

We've covered that at one point. I think the various camps on the matter ended up being

1) A being of sufficient power to create the universe would be indifferent to our wants and needs

2) It's part of "His" plan

3) It's a dick.

It's the only way that i can survive in this world, really. Honestly, this place is going down hill. There's violence the world over, children, parents, grandparents, all dying needlessly of stupid things like hunger and lack of water, because our politicians are too greedy and oil hungry to help anyone that wont benefit them... People join gangs out of want to be excepted, only to kill and be killed. People corrupt and distort Religion (which is not the same as faith, btw) to destroy and kill. People hate, and belittle, and torture, and kill, and get killed needlessly due to sin, and greed, and hate.

The only way that this world is possibly sane is if there's a second life that will balance this out... where the just and honest and good are rewarded, where the greedy and immoral and murderous have to face up to their crimes. Where, (To use a metaphore from Brave New World) John the Savage learns he was right all along, and Mustapha Mond learns that he made a horrible, horrible mistake.

And dont get me wrong, im not saying that life should be painless, since there's no learning, nor true happiness without pain. but it's gotten to the point where needless violence is everywhere. the corrupt government in Africa, Jihad in the Middle East, the Troubles in Ireland, and none of it makes sense. I cant believe that this is the final end point. that you die and you're gone. that Love dies along with the body. that greed and murder go unpunished. that a child who gets killed by some bomb, whether it be strapped to them by their parents, or launched by a soldier, will just die, and end then and there. Life is beyond unfair, vasu. It's cruel. It's merciless. It's not just that i WANT there to be something more. I can't possibly believe it's not. I doubt me, nor many others who may feel as me, could keep their sanity otherwise. And it's not foundless; it's not baseless; It's faith based, and faith founded. Obviously, i cant find scientific evidence that will prove anything, but i can think, and feel, and hope.

Yes, because human history has been genteel up until this point. We'll just ignore the Dark Ages, the Holocaust, Pol Pot, Alexander the Great, the French Revolution, the Vikings, the various genocides committed by the Jews (if you buy into the Old Testament as history)...

Life is rough, no one gets out alive. Sure, it'd be nice if everything worked out after we died, but it's got as much truth behind it as any other sort of fiction we've created. We might as well say that the events of The Matrix have already happened.

It's hard to come to this realization, I admit. As someone with a background in religious instruction, I did tend to want to cling on to the old comforts. It's like a security blanket. It's comforting. But comfort doesn't equal the truth.

I do believe it's the truth. i know things have always sucked, but i believe that someday they'll get better. there just HAS to be more than this. Besides, there IS plenty of proof out there. Skeptics will call it lies and fakes, with no true base for calling it that, other than they dont believe it's possible, but i believe it's true.

Besides, how did the same basic concept end up existing EVERYWHERE on earth?

I have no doubt we, as humans, can move forward to a better future. I'm not sure if we will, but we certainly can. Has nothing to do with an invisible father figure.

Just because you assert that there HAS to be something more doesn't make it so. I could assert that you have an invisible troll living in your ass controlling your every move, but you'd (rightly) call me a fool.

It would be NICE if there were something more of a cosmic balancing system, but that is the height of pride and hubris. To think that something as vast and varied as the universe was created JUST FOR US is almost unthinkably arrogant.

Who's to say there arent aliens out there worshipping the same God? God didnt make it for us, we're just one tiny planet.. i dont know where anything i said there had any correlation with that, though o_o

And dont forget that the same arguments can be turned on you. Where did the laws of physics come from? what makes matter act as it does? Where did the singularity in the big bang come from? Where did matter come from? where did energy, dark energy, and dark matter come from?