"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." Matt 5:17-18

So I guess the coming of Jesus doesn't mean you can forget about the old testament?

<3


This is the most cordial and non-argumentative God-existence thread that I've ever seen. Someone needs to bat for the other side. :angel:

I would explain it, but the wiki does a nice job of it. It's the theological concept of the New Covenant.

Heh, I'm not sure about that, I'm pretty intolerant about religious people who try to shove their beliefs in my face (of course, an argument like this doesn't count), in politics, or in my daily life. Anywhere else, you can be whatever you want. ;D

EDIT: @Hrae, I guess that's one more contradiction to add to the list, unless I got the wiki wrong.

The universe COULD have been created by using scientific means, But if you think about it, The universe is vast, And infinite, Could there be a possibility that God (?) had put more races into existence before us? Maybe we are just one in a line of many planets that he has made, Why else would we be the only living things in a giant infinite universe?

How do you know we are the only living things in the universe. You've answered your question in your own post. The universe is vast and infinite as you said. We simply have not managed to discover other life, but it could be that there is, and it is very probable that there is, life in other planets. It's pretty self-important to assume otherwise.

The point i was aiming for came out sounding wrong, I meant to say that The universe could very well have more life, And as far as we know, It DOES, So why would any God (?) Create an infinite universe, And put only us in it?

We aren't alone.

But i guess some people might dissagree.

sorry to sound like a total theology noob, but i dont really understand what you mean by personal and impersonal... does it mean one who intervenes or not? that seems to be what it means from what i looked up...

anyway, all i know is that im Catholic, and i feel there's some relatively decent evidence to support religion, such as the "Our Lady of Guadalupe" eyes... but that's just my belief. i'm not gonna force anyone into my religion, nor do i detest those who don't agree. everyone has their own beliefs, and we all have about the same % of a chance of getting it right.

Correct.

You'll have to give me some more info on the Lady of Guadalupe. From what I read in the wiki, it's just a picture with a story behind it. (Yes, I did read about the bomb blast and the disintegration thing, but that's just the argument from incomplete destruction). Also, why don't you try arguing some or all of the points I have made in this thread, instead of just stating your beliefs?

Well, basically, what makes it miraculous is the fact that there are like, extremely tiny pictures of the scene Juan Diego himself might've seen when he was revealing the picture on his clothes. there's the bishop, and everyone else that was there, and they're so tiny that no human being could've painted them.

and, as for solid evidence for believing... first of all, when you go into adoration, (praying in the presence of a consecrated host; basically, spiritually, in the presence of Jesus) you get this really strange, emotional feeling. i know that's not so solid, but it's true, and emotions, in my belief, at least, arent scientifically explainable all the time.

Plus, if you think about it, everything had to start with something. Even the big bang had to be caused by SOMETHING.

And alot of what's in the bible makes sense. i mean, the old testament was quite cruel, obviously, but you have to take the times into consideration as well. Plus, later, in the new testament, it was all nullified by Jesus as he replaced the angry penalties with laws of forgiveness.