Oh Maaaan that loser trash-talked Zukiz..... I tell
you if i was there i woulda been right on in there with falco
and uchi mouthing that guy off... And at skiiing where he says "want
a second chance make a second character"... wow thats kinda pathetic.
Those two spent good money on alot of CS items and are almost at the lvl
cap, to ask them to restart cuz of that is rediculous. And yes i spoke to
falco and that was the first time he ever got in trouble. Falco would NEVER
do anything mean or hurtful unless you really pissed him off.

A large WTF from me on this. >.>

Although, I agree that action should be taken on the matter of racial comments/slurs, the situation should be understood more before action is taken.

Well kryl i agrre on a punishment but perm baning a top lvl
player is f--ckingg bullsheet


I had a problem with...

(I dunno if I can name names or not... maybe as example?)


Yeah booyah i saw that... The latino community in fiesta makes me angry to
its frustrating with the language barrier and they are constantly trying to train and kill u if they dotn get there way.

I dont think saying you'd rape someone in pvp is anywhere near racist. Falco should have never got banned for racist remarks as he didnt make any. His language may have been over the line but its nothing that doesnt happen everyday in fiesta. A perma-ban for something as trivial as a curse word is just stupid. ^.^

These kind of situations are how games fail ^.^ when companies dont know how or just refuse to handle situations correctly.

Very much indeed. I wonder what they'll do now [Falcomist and the others]

Ermm..Falco did what?

So just because he's a top level player means he's immune to perma-ban? I'm not going to say whether Falco deserved his perma-ban or not (since we've still only seen one side of the story), but I for one don't want to see a high-level player or a Cash Shop player be immune from punishment just because they are a high-level player or a Cash Shop player.

I think that's one of the reasons why the the certain "Fantasma" situation really annoyed people because that player was in a special position so Outspark didn't take action.

Anyway, those screenies are pathetic. I couldn't even figure out why some of those screeniers were posted in the first place. Yeah some of them are incredibly rude and inflammatory. But that's different from some of the rest of the Fiesta community how?

^You mean... The "G______" person?

O__O" I wonder how much I was flamed for saying the poster on Outspark was over-reacting...

First of all, I just want to say that the poster is a total bastard. He has partied with me, and after that I never wanted to go near him again. He's just a flame-baiting (lol@me?) arse. This is far from the first time that he's gotten people mad and/or basically framed people.

This is probably one of the biggest over-reactions I've seen from Outspark... And honestly, I doubt the poster gives a *french toast* about the racist things said. I doubt he's Mexican, or whatever the insult was twords. Falco and Uchiha shouldn't have been banned over something as common as racist comments. I've seen waaaaay worse in Fiesta, too. >___>


Btw... The posted asked me to join his guild a few weeks ago... O.O


Edit: 100% agreed @ Tequilla.

another example of outspark over-reacting once to make up for a thousand times of doing nothing. typical

Has Falco & uchiha gone back to SnakeEye and explained the situation?

Surely, if the poster has started so many flames around, he would've been reported to the GM by others in the past??

I hope Falco and the girl that was harrassed originally took screenshots too, coz that'll be the best way to defend themselves...

I personally think that it's unfair they got perm banned so quickly when they've only make 2-3 comments. Sure, that's not an excuse for them to make racist comments, but as this has never been brought up before, the punishment is a bit harsh..

NOW that Outspark has made it all clear, there's no excuse... but when that drama happened... it has not be brought to attention.. PLUS they were being provoked...

I hope outspark reconsider these two based on special circumstances...

I never meant it like that. I meant it like how do u perm- ban someone who has spent alot of time and money on your game, for such a silly little reason, its just rediculous to me.


And i hope so hessah.... I meen i dont no what they did to zukiz but it takes
ALOT to get falco mad. Hes a cute fluffy asian lol i never even though tht ever got angry

Just want to say that as far as this discussion goes - I want to remind everyone that no personal/direct insults are to be made against a player - that is flame baiting.

You may discuss this situation in terms of whether the actions done by Outspark was right or not, but no insults should be made against a particular member/player and they are not necessary.

So does that meen we can sstill bad mouth snake eyes? xD

Oh my god, please do not get me started on her.

LMAO. I love you for doing that. -Hi5!-

Down with thiefs. (Makes you wonder if he has alterior methods of making money?

Btw, isn't the reporting button bugged?


I somewhat agree with SKiNG, now that I read his post.

i agree with skiing somewhat as well... but from that "photoevidence" i dun see falco saying anything actually racist... and yeah Angelic piggie should have been banned MONTHS ago, why they chose to act so quick and harsh this time is beyond me.

Please watch what you guys say about people on this game. Like Blahs said... we do not tolerate flaming nor flame baiting.

We are speaking about how outspark chose to act on certain people,
and how they havent acted on others in the past... no flaming here ~.~

Just an example.

That could lead to flaming. Not saying it will.


Again, we're just warning you guys.

Lol sry :| this is a touchy subject for me... falco being one of my
best friends in fiesta and that... but ill try to stay away from "certain" people

Personally if I was Falco I wouldnt waste my time. I not sure how much money hes spent on Fiesta but similar things happened when I was playing Holic a *incident happened over a weekend and the GM's banned all of the high level players legit and non-legit without doing a proper investigation in the matter. I don't think its worth a players time to have to prove his or her innocence..especially when the screen shots posted already show that they are not guilty of the what they are trying to hang them for. This whole situation is just dumb. After allowing stuff like this to go on since the launch of CB1 you decide to take extremely harsh action on two players basically to make a example of them. The GMs and Admins can deny this as much as they like but its essentially what went on here. A week in jail or maybe just a chat ban would of been fine. Anywhoo Sking/SnakeEyes both owe Falco a apology since they banned him for racism which is something he didn't do as for the other guy if you stretch his statements then sure its racism and his ban might be justified but as for Falco's I don't really think so.

I'd like to point out that your two words "flame baiting" are rather generic.

The stuff about piggie is true.

By saying it is on the grounds for flame baiting is only restricting the amount of truth you can actually say.

Just like on the outspark forums.


It's rather annoying seeing the moderating team act like this.


The best communities do nothing to restrict free speach. Even if it is flamitory, they do nothing until it crosses the line of derogitory.

Building these "fluffy" and fake communities are rather rediculous.


I'm sorry for sounding soo harsh, but the fact of the matter is it sickens me to see the moderators of this community behave like the community leaders of the Outspark forums,

Restrict the passage of information.

When something is true, it is true.


Now back to the topic at hand.




















Tell me, do you not know every vulgar word, and set of phrases out there?

In fact, I can name many phrases having been exposed to them when you walk the streets in a downtown metropolis.

Is it not possible for someone to anger you soo incredibly much that you do not think straight?

Is it not possible that in such as situation you can end up using such remarks?


If alcohol is involved the chances become much more likely.






Some questions that should be answered.














At any rate, I dont think Falcomist intends to continue playing after this. I'd be surprised if he did. But, its rather disappointing to loose another friendly level 70 in a population half consisting of greedy and selfish people.

Wow at this D: Uchi and Falco gone? D:

Looking at the screenshots I do see this happen alot (maybe not to this extent)! But I guess he's the first one to get punished. I guess it does really set the ground though that Outspark won't tolerate this because I always thought Outspark didn't care what went on... screenshots or not...

This is scary D: -zips my mouth-

^100% agreed.

As for falco and uchi, I know both of them personally. It is difficult to say whether or not it was justified to punish them for this incident, but no matter what, I believe in two things:

first, a player's LEVEL or the amount of cash they spent should NEVER matter when it comes to punishments for misconduct.

however, secondly, I believe a second chance is in order for this type of thing. get a hold of the players that did wrong, make sure they know theyre warned for going against the TOS. Maybe restrict access to the game for a week or two. If they go out of line again they deserve what's coming, but simply wiping out a character/account just like that, is not the way to go.

If we were to be strict we would have locked this already.

Just to let you know, this fansite was not created for people to come here and flame each other. What you consider to be "true" may not be considered the truth by another. We merely reminded you all not to create any flaming in this thread, because once you have we will be closing it. We do not encourage this thread to be closed if we can. We allow open discussions as long as it does not create any personal conflicts between members of the forums. I am sure most of us are mature enough to carry out an appropriate discussion without the need of "gossiping" and talking about other people.

We are not restricting the passage of information - but the fact that you had thrown a name out there is at the risk of a flame bait. However, if you had said "But, repeated screenshots of guild war abuse by a certain player has yet to get him/her banned.", chances are we wouldn't have said anything at all.

I just want to make that clear.



----------------

Back on topic,

I haven't commented on this subject anywhere yet but it seemed to have caused much more commotion than it should. From that point itself I think the situation was not handled appropriately.

However, although it is true that both sides should be punished, I believe GMs cannot punish the other side unless screenshots have been provided. You cannot put a criminal into jail without solid evidence.

I personally do not agree with what Outspark has done in this situation, but it seems like it can't be helped. The discussion on the official forums are gonna be closed and it looks like they will hear no more of it. It is a shame.

To put in the simplest way, it seems like two Fiesta players had gotten pretty unlucky. =/

Of course this fansite was not created for flamitory purposes. No fansite ever is.

However, you must naturally accept that with any debate there is flaming. Only action need be taken when it becomes derogitory.


Furthermore, that was posted as evidence of outsparks lack of sight.


I'm sorry, but when you defend an argument you do not give wishey washy proofs that can be misinterpretted. Proof must be absolute. There are many guilds who do abuse the guild war feature. Most prominently this individual mentioned.


I did not grow up in your generation, so I do not know what sort of practices or values you hold.

My generation believes to tell it like it is.



Like I said, your term "flame bait" is generic, and the way anything classified under it is handled is similar to the way the community leaders brainwash the community on the outspark forums.


There are bound to be "heated arguments", but to cut them out of a community completely is to return to those "fluffy" communities aformentioned.

I don't know if it's me, or the fact that I've assimilated into German culture && Society... but that's how I believe as well, and people in Germany have a tendency of telling how it brutally is. ^^

~~~~~

And if it's true that they're not going to hear any more of it... then that's just fked.

That's like judge, jury, and sentencing with only one side of the story D:

I sure hope that they did talk with the other party, and got info needed.

Falcomist was a great player, and although I don't think level or how much money you've spent in a game should get you ban-immunity, I think that they should look at the fact that he's gone this far without having any previous incidents, and to do this suddenly when he's never done it before must've had some kind of bait, or certain problem.

~~~

Reckon petitions do anything these days for mmorpgs?

I saw no flaming or bait.. Like angellic and lilian said, a fact is a fact. You can't show somebody a peacock and tell them its a bumblebee just to protect their ears.


This forum is about an MMO, an MMO is 90% people you will interact with. So naturally, people will have opinions of each other, but what I saw being said wasn't flames, or even bait, just a person's opinion of things that had happened.

If the particular person doesn't want people to talk about things like that, then they shouldn't do them to people in the first place.

***

With petitions, I dunno. I doubt it for outspark. They seem to only care about $$$ right now. =p

just as in the real world you cant say what you want when you want and you shouldnt expect to be able to.

ANY abuse not just racial should be dealt with

admittedly suspension for a first/second offense then third strike permanent.

there are so many children in this game who think that they can abuse people because they're bored or annoyed. the level of unacceptable and inappropriate conversation is deeply frustrating and annoying even when you're not involved.

he defended his girlfriend? well its a good lesson, if he behaves like that in the real world hell get into real trouble, and so he should. (although i agree perma ban is a little heavy handed)

I would like to point out that simply warning you guys to keep it down is not out of our boundaries. We have allowed this discussion without edits, without deletes, without closing the thread. So, these comments are unneccessary. All we did was warn the people posting in this thread so that we would NOT have to take these measures, because we DO allow a lot more freedom on this forum than on the Outspark forum. We are being respectable of the people posting in this thread, please treat us with the same respect.

well i mite be getting banned to cuz i fliped out
wen i found abut falco being banned so oh well

I must start out saying that I do not know anyone involved in this situation. I have read this entire thread and believe that there is more to this situation than what the screenies have shown.

I am old so let grandpa tell you a story.

Two friends that worked together enjoyed jabbing each other verbally while they worked. Often the comments would be derogatory and racial in nature. Now neither friend was offended because they both knew it was all just good natured ribbing. One day one of the friends was called into the manager’s office and was told that he was being let go for the racist remarks he made towards his friend. The guy being fired explained that it was all just in fun and the other guy wasn’t offended. He told the manager to bring his friend in and they could get it all worked out. But the manager explained that the head of the HR department was walking by their desks one day and heard the remarks. So there was no way that he could keep his job.

You see it wasn’t the context of the remarks that mattered. It was that the remarks were made, period, that mattered. So you see you have to watch what you say.

That being said, I do wish that a shut down of all accounts involved and an in-depth investigation would have taken place first before banning.

Just an old man’s thoughts.

lol nice story haha i mite be banned to lol

Im gonna have to agree with Spirit Lilian and O-mie on this one. In a MMO players in the community with always have opinions about others and will state them. They may do it in irc , ingame or on a fansite as long as its well within the lines of the discussion then theres no need to warn about it. Giving out warnings for something you think might occur is like a police officer pulling someone over because he thinks they might speed. Everything that was said in this thread was well within the scope of the discussion saying that a player does something in game is not flamebaiting. Personally I dont think fansites should be all flowers and no reality.

Oh, then maybe I need to reword what I wrote. Because although, I do agree with your comparison with the police officer, I was not in any way agreeing with the other comments (ALL that were made on the subject of the warnings) that have been made. I was saying that both Yosei and Blaaaahs were justified and well within their limits when they asked people to remember the rules and keep it down.
If you want to use a comparison, we could use speed limit signs. They warn us what the limit is. They are posted multiple times over the same road. If you go even one mile over that limit, the officer has EVERY right to pull you over. Now, some (other sites) may give you a ticket for that one mile over the limit and they are within their laws (rules of the forums). But, others (Fiestafan), will issue you a verbal or written warning and let you continue on your merry way.

Respect our rules and warnings and we will respect you. You would not "call out" a police officer for pulling you over, because your chances of getting out of the ticket will drop drastically.

Dont be mean about ALL latino players since i am one of them...bad falco...most of the people on D_L do need to learn how to be curtious. I guess they dont take the game very serisouly like some other people...

Back on topic please? We were just warning you guys, not biting your heads off.

Anywho..
Falco said he didn't take screenshots. So.. again, it was his loss in the end. Its not that they're trying to spite you, but they have to practice a solid policy that may seem tough, but the easiest way to make sure those who need to be punished get what they deserve.

I'm sure if he had the screenies, he could make another account, show them to a GM, and maybe they would do something about it. Probably not since he did throw out the insults,(cheesy sayings: two wrongs dont make a right, If you don't have anything nice to say anything at all, etc) which he could have opted not to. With screenies, all they could do was ban the other party too. The problem with this situation is that if they did give Falco a chance, they'd have to go by he-said-she-saids, there is no proof that other party threw out insults. If they give one person a chance on he-said-she-saids, they have to give everyone that chance, and there are people who would abuse that, lie, and twist the story. It could be like a little kid argument. Sometimes kids will stretch the truth to soften their own punishment, or even turn it onto someone else. Sorry I stole the candy but he got it down from the shelf for me! Doesn't change the fact that you did it.

I highly doubt that ;p unless you flamed someone else too and the GMs saw it.

well like ppl were back talking and like saying stuff about falco
and like falco didnt take pics of it so like they were just as bad
and i think that is total bs!

So says the mighty outspark.