hmm this is getting complicated... i guess the rest will come down to strategy...
(now i've forgotten where this is going... keke)

Point being a cleric isn't exactly useful to PvP as it currently stands.

Yeah OK i'll agree on that XD

All we can do is stand VERY FAR AWAY and heal...

I hate whoever +repped me for my second post. </3

When I said 2-3 seconds for the stun, its more like 1.5-2, tops. It might give you about 2 steps of running time, but to say that is a real stun is a joke.

I like how clerics can live when they take aggro when we AoE, but by no means should they have more DEF than a fighter (which they currently do). I think it's pretty much BS, because it even says on the Fiesta main page that fighters are the class with most HP/DEF! IIRC, the issues page lists the stat problem for fighters. I don't think others classes were really effected.

Damage is just something you have to sacrifice for a potentially limitless amount of heals/HP (unless they somehow OHKO you in PvP...).

we ONLY have more def compare to a fighter of the same level IF they are a 2H user... if they hv a shield.. they still have more def...

and none-the-less.. fighters have MORE HP... (my grinding buddy has 500 more HP being 3 lvls under me)... so... he survive a MD KQ Robo hit, while i die instantly...

^

?

Angelic is right, unless they fixed fighters sometime between now and Dec. 18th.

but but.. i thought i compared my Def to Kev and he has more def if he use a shield 0.o

-ok i think i shall go back and confirm-

Does he have the same build (END-wise), same + on his shield?

I forget if the DEF is when you have no armor/shield on or not.

i'm 25 SPR rest END... and he's about the same if i remember correctly..

Oh i hv a +6 shield and his one is just clean... and i hv +END boots and +END armour and +END Ring LOL! theortically my DEF should be higher... so even after all that my def is still about the same then fighters definitely hv more def LOL

i guess i'll go home and double check 2nite..

I dunno where u got the idea of clerics having more def than fighters, perhaps you should create one of each class and level them to 20 both going full END to see the difference lol. My noob cleric has roughly 180 def with buff and scroll today in a mara kq and a level 24 fighter had 260~ defense. In addition to that a shield is a must for us clerics as we have no such thing as 2h weapons. If you think axe/2hers should have way higher def than a cleric you might as well recommend for Outspark to take out shields for clerics across all levels. I'm not an END build, but the end doesn't really make a difference significant enough to be worth the mentioning (+12 def for l20 if I invest all 25 points into it).

One thing I've also realized is that clerics aren't as tough as I originally thought them to be. As a matter of fact in guild wars they are rather weak and useless. For example my friend called our guild in to help fight a guild trampling a new players' guild, we had 3 mages taking on 2 clerics. The mages were level 44, 36, and 33, and the clerics are level 47 and 48. We took their hp down so fast they didn't even have the time to rebuff themselves after our numerous mana burns and purges, and it takes roughly 8 seconds to kill either of them (HPCandy & Liwen). The l44 mage hit on average 250 and 500-700 on criticals depending on skills using a level 40 regular ggk unenhanced and all white equipments while I hit from 120-250 at level 33. Both HPCandy & Liwen uses +9 ggk hammers and they only hit around 200 on me (I have about 1400 hp with vitality t1/green armors/ and cleric buff, so time was plenty for me to recover and continue kiting). Shortly after the war I saw Liwen selling off his +9 ggk for only 400s (I suppose he gave up doing any damage lol), but at any rate, based on this and the 2 hit ko I spotted today I think clerics need more hp and at least a slight boost to firepower at the very least instead of toning down. As for those complaining about 1v1'ing clerics.... sorry about any offense, but if you are stingy about pots why are you even stupid enough to take on a cleric knowing they can heal in the first place? P.s. up till now the system is still for group fights and not for 1v1s.

I was doing comparisons with full end clerics and fighters.

Full end clerics and full end fighters under the same condition stock equipment with a fighter using a shield - the fighter has less defense than the cleric despite the fact that the defense from the armour adds up to a greater sum...

I dont know exactly how outspark achieved this, but it appears as if fighters just "lost" some of the defense points from the armour into some void.

The clerics defense stat sums properly. The fighters does not.

The clerics will have more defense than a fighter if the fighter is using a 2-handed weapon no doubt. And it should remain that way.

However, when a fighter is using a shield it shouldn't be possible that a cleric has more defense.... (stock equipments same build.)

Its not anything to do with the cleric class. No the cleric class is fine. The fighters have some serious stat issues since the raise of the level cap which is still unresolved. The defense just doesn't sum properly...

For instance as a 1-handed fighter :

My armour (non stock) and everything adds up to 789 defense.

My stat reads 666. (I know, this just so happens to be my defense stat with my shield at the tender level of 66)

Somewhere I lost 123 points in defense.

Exactly why I don't fight clerics.

After numerous spectating Fighter/Clerics fights, it's a just no.

Also one conviently took place where I afk so I watched as the fighter shroomed to regain hp and just took the hits.

Perhaps Outspark still hasn't solved the bug occuring over more than a month ago?

Hence the reason why we are calling "boost!"

But it is absolutely rediculous. The announce a fix to class balance when they havent even began fixing what they did before christmas....

I'm not sure but perhaps the bug isn't limited to only fighters. My friend (l50 cleric) experienced a sharp decline in his defense as well. He was able to tank a large number of mobs in Scaffold for AoE before and now the number sharply decreased, he also experienced bugs where instead of receiving bonus for his defensive stats with more party members he get a decrease instead. I don't know if the issue is already addressed for him or not but he mentioned about contacting Outspark. Sometimes I wonder if it's really "bugs" that pops out of nowhere or Outspark playing their "balances" in secrecy. :p

ah ok so if they fixed the bug the fighter SHOULD hv more Def...

we should be calling for a "FIX!" rather than a "boost!" kekeke

i guess there's no point in me trying to compare my def to the fighter...

With that Mage v Cleric thing... if the clerics just stood there and heal themselves.. u guys shouldnt be able to take them down.. (or will take a while)

but as soon as they try to bash or run... they hv left themselves open...

and yeah.. +9 or not.. we're still weak HAHA

Still I would like it.... Suppose it could be empowered to say 4 or 5 seconds, trip, change to mace before stun runs out, bleed, thats long enough. besides, i think 3 seconds should be more then enough to run away...

of course i understand fighters have better stuns, but they ARE fighters after all...

edit: of course, if they change any skills, they should reset all skill points for free...

In an earlier post I kinda revisited that.

The stun duration is about 1.5-2 seconds, maybe a little less. You can run about two steps before it unfreezes. Fully empowered might be 3 seconds, total.

the minuite mages get better def is wen clerics get better damage....im a mage an i cant go anywhere without 10000 pots an stones or w/o a cleric(which 1/2 the time never heal me cuz there tryin to kill the monster, wen all they need to do is heal ><) but yeah, clerics got bad damage mages got bad def. Its really its all solved wen u party up with another person an make a stategy. Me a my buddy always tag team, and at lev 27 we were in goblin camp for training. he tanks, i aggro off, he heals, they die. but w/o a good pt member it can be bad :(. id really like to have a stun ability tho, if i had 1 it would reeaaaallly help soloin.

The whole point to mages is that they have low defense and high attack.

Mages will probably stay the same.

Of course it's about partying and partying with a person who knows how to do their job. It's an MMO afterall so the gameplay should become better once you have a full party grinding. Whether it be party buffs and/or efficient exp gain.

But like I said class balance is when a character is able to be an efficient party member contributing to the whole party (putting aside the person behind it and if they can do it properly) as well as a soloist.

@hyperswoss: Agreed. If Mages had higher HP and/or defense with their damage then everyone would play that character.

Exactly, And if Clerics did better damage EVERY1 would play as them as well, and as with all the other classes the whole "if" word comes into play, which brings me to the conclusion...whats the point in this? lol, all the classes are good as is. and yes clerics can live longer an goto high lev places an solo there, but by the time there done with 1 mob, ive killed enough lower levs to get just as much xp.

whoops ment to quote loveless

The thing is that the Cleric has no other damage dealing skill right now besides Bash. While they also have Trip/Bleed, they do not stun or inflict bleeding as they should be. Also, their buffs stop at a certain level so most people will look for a lower leveled Cleric so that they can receive more EXP rather than get higher one who will suck away EXP.

So then comes the time when a 60+ Cleric goes off to solo... but because they cannot deal decent damage even to a mob their level they are having to really grind out their levels. There is a whole thread about the Clerics in the official forums. I've played a Cleric as well and I did crap damage even on Yellow mobs. I felt as if a Mage can kill off a Red/Orange mob faster than I can kill those Yellow mobs. Which is rather sad...

ehhh i jus dunno, the second i see a cleric the same lev as another class kill off an enemy as fast, or almost as fast as another class while healin themsleves is wen i make one. from my PoV were all even.

Insiders view is important.

An outsiders view (non biased towards one class) is more valuable, because only they will be able to objectively say what needs to be done.

For instance, a passive stance:

Mages need not recieve stun. Fear is good enough although its cool time might be pretty bad. They need not stun because of the sheer massive damage they are able to inflict. Out of all classes they are given Frost Nova, and Inferno, two of the best AOE skills out there.

Clerics need more options. They hit a dead end past their 40's when the skills they get are not quite as nice. It becomes difficult to play solo unless one uses cash shop items particularily the strength increase, and have [+9] hammers loaded with arguably the best buffs for aim increase. Something "more" is needed for the class, however not focused on the offensive "stun" aspect but perhaps the offensive "bleed" or a sort of "hp-drain" type offense.

Archers need more overall... Out of all the classes they are left behind. Since mages AOE deals superb damage to multiple targets, archers are often left out of the parties. Archers do well against a single target, namely in situations where a chief monster is being faced as a whole group. Aside from that archers arent really given anything thats useful enough for them to be "wanted." Archers are stuck soloing without the ability to "immobilize" an enemy, making it one of the harder classes to play.

Fighters... Well aside from the stat-decrease from the level-cap raise patch, they are pretty well off. The only thing we are missing is 1 skill beserk, designed to help support fighters be support fighters - decrease defense increase damage. Fighters need no beefing or toning down. They just need their stats fixed.

I'm a mage user and personally I think that we are not overpowered in any way. The only way that a mage can tank is if they pop on tons of scrolls and have a cleric spam heal them which is not efficient and a waste of sp when compared to a fighter. In most cases of PvP especially against a good cleric of the same lvl, a mage won't be able to kill the cleric even if you're full int, one round of attack simply won't kill them and the cool down time for the spells simply takes way too long and by that time the cleric can cast around 6heals within the 15 second if they maxed cool down. The only chance you have is to team them and if they catch up to you it's gameover unless you burn pots and stones while you run like crazy. In grinding on monsters either solo or in party you always have to burn tons of pots and stones just to stay alive because you attract soo much aggro and you cleric is too busy to heal you or the party refuse to rest and your sp consumption is way too high. (ps I use all tier 1 spells except firebolt)

I agree with a lot of the statements here. In addition to that I think equipments and cashshop items are tipped in favor toward certain classes more so than others, for example, a 15% extra critical for a mage means nonstop attack with such a percentage at extremely high powers, added INT meant much more for a mage than added STR for clerics/archers/fighters simply because of how damage is calculated on naturally low magic defense across almost all fields. Honestly after playing all four classes and testing various builds I'd call mages my favorite by a long shot, they can tank (level 40 tanking orcs), can dish out monstrous damages, are welcomed in guild wars, and are essential to almost any party that's serious about grinding as well as are capable of soloing (by kiting a mage around level 40s can kill off mobs in CP while taking only 1 or 2 hits, just wait till the implementation of stun). Hence I believe if they're going to do a class balance they should also do a cashshop balance lol. Have their codes changed slightly so that there are Wine Dress (Clerics), Wine Dress (Mages) etc. that comes with different price tags. Obviously the ones for clerics should be much cheaper as the extra critical meant very very little for a cleric (who doesn't solo if given a brain at any rate).

Also one major thing that needed fixing is their profiteering mindset. Honestly all their moves are geared more toward money than the game. I understand their need to make a profit, but with the quality of service they offer it's kind of taking it a bit too far. For example the recent "sales" of the menian sets that is getting lesser and lesser users to have a potential increase of buyers and then the removal of such items and then the addition of stats to have players realize "omg I've bought garbage", and thus prompt the players to buy the new menian sets with increased price level that's closing in on Tuxedos. It is also my personal belief that the Valentine sets will be priced high as well. They might be moving toward a policy where only items with stats are sold (not to mention with increasing price tags), so players will have no say about "permanent" items, but that's just a hunch. If BK open a server for English users I'd be the first to play on it as well as be willing to pay a monthly fee lol.

If you're responding to my previous post I was talking about effects on cash shop items.....

Not really, just putting in opinion. :)

But in terms of Cash Shop, it should really be a 'bonus' and shouldn't give such a huge difference inbetween non-cs users and cs users. So things like the pets and storage space packs are great. Same goes for the eyes/miles and exp increase, no loss when you die.

Also, if they had different sets for each class I would think it gets quite tedious. Not to be 'mean' or anything of that sort but what makes you think that they'd be able to do that when they can't even get patches/updates implemented correctly... :/

I disagree that clerics are not supposed to solo. I do not believe that bash, bleed, and trip, were given to clerics for no reason, besides, i think some of the more "advanced" fiestas like BK have some pvp battleground where parties cannot be formed, and where other player's IGN/chat will be unregconisable, and of course, players can fight each other. If clerics were not meant to solo, they should have been given more healing skills, and it would be impossible to complete class change quests.

Exactly I don't even want to play anymore... It took 15 sec to drop an orc at lvl 50 and at lvl 60.. omg still takes 15 sec... Although I can go and grind on trumpy's and roughly 15 sec there too... however the exp is a rubbish 1k, less than what I was getting at lvl 50 O.o

Actually you are able to form parties in those places too and you are able to see the other person's name. Maybe not now but in BK it's like that. All classes should be able to solo to some extent.

I just hope that when they do implement class balance that the Archers receive the skills they missed out and the skills we have already to have the effect it's supposed to. Same goes for Clerics and Mages (whose lightning should stun). Fighters have the right skills, all they need is their defense bug to be fixed.

Having taken advanced programming I didn't think it's all that hard D: Just a few lines of code (that takes them months to write for some reasons).

Coding is tedious and they are too 'busy' doing some Bread n' Butter game when they should be working on Fiesta or SoS.

They obviously don't know how to prioritize.

I don't think clerics are overpowered. They may be able to heal, but they don't do as much damage as fighters at any level. Fighters may not be able to heal themselves but they have more HP and strength.