It was all censored where I saw it. But then again, I live in the ultra-conservative environment of India.

This brings us back to that question of the genius professor and the thousand bums, in a way.

Which you are neglecting to post in. D:<

Like what? o_o

i've kept up in most current ones, like the stalinism one and the starvation one... people just stopped bothering to post in the latter of the two... i finally just got tired of all the constant repeating of topics from both sides in the religion one...

I wish they had released a censored version here too. i would be there right away. i wanted to see it sooooo bad x.x

You might want to check it again, because I don't remember you replying about God's malevolence thing, and you also did not adequately differentiate between free will and impersonal-ness. You said that he might want us to "come to him", and didn't explain what that meant. When I pointed out that even Jesus' sacrifice was unnecessary, you just trailed off.

And you also reverted to saying that you believe in God because of the moral ideas present in the Bible, which can be exercised without the help of a deity.

But then again, it's entirely your choice if you want to stop posting in a thread.


And one last thing, I don't see what your problem is with things being repeated. A debate goes like this.

A: I hold position 1.
B: I hold position 2.

A: Position 2 is wrong because of x and y.
B: But because of p and q, position 2 can be right.
A: I refute p and q because of r and s, therefore position 2 is false.

Now just because A has restated that position 2 is false again, doesn't mean the debate is getting repetitive and circular.

1. Yes, you are correct. I didnt have an answer, and still dont, simply because i dont know how God operates. That's not something any living being can really answer, so it's kinda an unfair question :/

As for malevolence, one could assume that a being at such a higher level as to be able to create all that exists would be interested in things much higher than we, and therefore not have need for greed, hate, etc.

And once again, to the sacrifice of Christ, perhaps there are supernatural rules that God has created for himself to follow. It doesnt limit his omnipotence and omnicience, because it would be more of a choice to limit his powers than anything else.

Also, i think i've come up with something; Perhaps the absolute truth lies partially in different religions. I mean, there ARE similarities between each different religion; i believe a Taoist friend of mine told me that they believe in a god's son being sacrificed; (i dont know the accuracy of this story as i havent researched it very deeply yet); Many Native American tribes believed in a Great Spirit, therefore suggesting monothesim. Perhaps there isnt one specific religion with all the answers, but instead each holds a valuble peice of the puzzle (excluding religions created on greed, and hate, such as the manson family, of course)

2. It got circular because the arguments had no deffinite endpoint and would circle back to repeated topics. Also, you cant simplify both stances since we were debating details in them. it would go like this:

A. I hold Stance 1, 3, and 5
B. I hold stance 2, 4, and 6

A. X and Y disprove stance 2
B. But S and T maneuver around X and Y
A. But C and D Disprove X and Y
B. But stance 4 can reprove stance 2
A. But stance 4 is flawed because of such and such
B. Not if stance two is taken into account.
A. But stance two is flawed because of X and Y.

i couldnt really make a good model for the thread, but you get my basic point...

You went to Watch Men ?
That explains alot...

Check ze thread.

Har har.

http://instantrimshot.com/

Edit: Also, you should get the book. It's great reading. It also will make you less likely to say things like Rorschach was a hero. There ARE no heroes in Watchmen. That's sort of the point.

*sigh* Once again, perhaps not a hero, but most certainly not a sellout. :/

And is there a censored version out there? please, i implore you, if there is, tell me, i want to see it extremely badly x.x

It's no worse than an R-rated movie. This isn't Preacher we're talking about.

I saw it in the cinema theatre dude, I doubt any prints with some actual quality will be out any time soon, so you'll either have to fly out here and watch it, or wait till the DVD releases, and dl it from a torrent. XD

Bleh. that sucks x.x

But it IS a possibility that it will eventually come out that way? That's at least more hope i had of seeing it than before.

And vasu, you've yet to weigh in on the argument: Which side do you take at the end: Rorschach or Ozymandias?

I've never really decided. Rorschach is kind of right because I don't believe in any kind of compromise either. But Ozymandias did it in a way so as to provide peace as quickly as possible, and I even daresay, in the cleanest possible way. Like that Dr. Manhattan dude said, sacrifice was necessary. At the most, he could have reduced the number of bombs planted, but that's just haggling over the details.

Ozymandias himself questioned whether or not there was a better way after rorschach was killed, though. Perhaps he could've used his vast knowlege to come up with one?

Then again, that's once again nitpicking; i suppose the moral ambiguity is something that simply cant be solved, and that the author made it that way purposfully.

Ding ding ding ding ding. Alan Moore is like that.

This has got to be the most boring MoS thread of mine. Ever.

Lol

depends. do you consider intellectual debates that attempt to probe into a great work of fiction boring?

Yes. Especially when those debates are happening in MoS and in my thread(:

I find them boring on here. I hear and am apart of enough debates in real life. Its called having a really intense father and 3 brothers. We talk and debate about a lot of things. I get sick of it.

Hm. well, that's where your previously stated philosophy of "Hey, it's mos, it's ok to go off topic" Backfires on you.

But then I can have my thread closed and you can open one of your "mature" discussion threads 8DD

We did, acctually, already. We're just finishing up our debate here. In fact, this thread would have died a quick, painless death if you hadnt said anything about us being boring. Hrae had said a decent last-sentence statement, but you had to continue conversing. So, ha.

I just changed the subject. Back to what it originally was about since I'm in the same situation again. :3

You could always watch a movie.


DEJA VU!

Actually... I could watch some Love Letter or.. just Brian Joo stuff. xD

^ Lulz at hrae... Meh at A_f.

Yes. You use meh a lot. A lot of the time it seems you use it when you are annoyed and are just simply shrugging bad thoughts away.

Say something mean. Call me an annoying bitch. xD

Meh. no thanks. I use it when i'd rather not continue debating a meaningless point.

Well.. I do this to you (And I think some other people do too), to see if you'll ever crack. -nod-

do what to me?

"Argue" with you 8D

Hm. You mean how Hrae and Vasu constantly take stances that are the exact opposite of mine? because i thought that was simply a difference in our respective ideologies. or something else?

regardless, you're obviously not doing a great job as i've not even noticed it till you pointed it out.

Also, why do you feel the need to make me "Crack"? O_o

Because you always seem to have this need to debate but be nice about it. Whats the point in being nice all the time? The majority of people are complete assholes.

I just want to see you go off on someone. I really do. :3

To take the highroad and distinguish myself from the assholes.

And why do you want to see me go off on someone? i dont see much point in that... :/

To be a sanctimonious prat, you mean? LOL

Yes. Thats what my brother said you were doing.

Please. That'll probably get you into more trouble than not. Whatever though. You're still young(Yes. I am too) and you may have to change your ways as you get older.

whats wrong with being nice?

No... I just dont see much point in reacting to assholes with assholishness. If you think someone's wrong, you shouldnt bring yourself down to their level :/

But, if you truly want me to go off on you... *Sigh*... so be it...

Hrae, you sir are a cynical, aggressive, hateful, bitter man who has no sense of poetry or beauty in the world. You attempt to act high and mighty, using obscure refferences to attempt to seem to be the intellectual.

*Sigh*.

That good enough for you?

Well, everyone thinks of Hrae like that. :D

Nothing is wrong with it. Being nice all the time, in this world, just doesn't work though.

I was with you up until the poetry and beauty in the world. There's plenty of that, LOL.