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If you're in a corridor and you are being pursued, the person HAS to go through said corridor to reach you or waste time going around while you wait for your CDs. Cover it with a nova. It slows them down. Choose your fighting spots in a war wisely... believe it or not, even fighters have to deal with luck. We're not all rolling our faces on our keyboards... it's just that we have more room for error than mages. And mages have things we don't have. That's how it works.
Besides, pvp is not the only aspect in this game. Mages can't solo well, we know that. Likewise, fighters can't really AoE well (WW doesn't count, deva is nice but still not entirely spammable). And post-60 leveling mainly consists of AoE parties. Guess what? Means a lot of people calling for mages or clerics in places like TR. Fighters are less preferred in AoE parties because they can't AoE. Their tanking abilities go downhill after 60 (imho, the one rantworthy broken aspect of fighters) and consequently everybody is a DD. But we still can't DD mobs as well as mages can. We take less damage generally but if I'm duoing with a cleric and another group is duoing mage/cleric, assuming we're both pulling decent and equal-sized mobs, I can pretty much guarantee that mage will be done before I am. That's the way mages are. |
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Mages DO have the power, mages DO have the skills, mages DO have the range. The biggest part of being a mage is AOE and if you cant use that skill then no wonder YOU'RE underpowered. Quote:
What more variety in skills do you want? Mage get TWO AOEs, a big range of attack spells, fear, Mana Burn, slowness, steal skill, cancel skills. A WHOLE RANGE of PVE and PVP skills. What more do you want? Just because you can't make the skills effective does not mean they are useless. |
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The basic thrust of your argument is "I want mages to be more powerful, damn the consequences to the other classes." The PVP in this game is a serious afterthought to the squad-based PvE. It was designed to be in the form of Guild Wars, still squad-based fighting. You can't hold your own against a fighter? Guess what. You're not supposed to. You've got to coordinate your actions with your squad or guild. You slow a fighter, another fighter stuns them, then you can unleash holy hell on him. This PVP isn't based on dueling. If you're looking for that, you're in the wrong game. I also like the irony of you telling people that you won't play another class, yet turning around and telling people to play a level 71 mage. You're just being a dick for the sake of being a dick. Most of these people that are disagreeing with your points DO play mages as well as the other classes. They have an understanding of the various strengths and weaknesses of the various classes and how they balance. Your ignorance is glaring. Also, oddly familiar. But that's another topic. |
Please keep the flames down.
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Here's my wall of text. xD Cool downs Dammit, why do I have to wait six minutes for NS to cool down when it is only a one minute buff? And god, it doesn't even help anyways cause I'm using all my other skills! ): If you don't like the cooldown of a skill, then don't use it. Like you said, it has practically no use besides PvP. I'm pretty sure you have at least three or four other spells to use during cooldown time. As for using level 1 spells, er, why are you complaining about it? The reason mages use level 1 spells is that it dishes out the most damage in a certain amount of time. And what's more, you use less sp. Your damage isn't affected too much either because mage spells are based off mdmg. You should be happy about this. This is coming from an archer that uses 1k SP killing one blue trumpy with almost all her skills. If you really are annoyed with your spells, trade with me. I guarantee you'll want them back in an hour. (; Damage Your damage really depends on how you build your mage and if you CS. I've met mages that outdamage everybody else in the party, including the charmed+buffed+scrolled+egoboosted fighter. Then, I've met mages with a +9 blue which I can outdamage on my archer with a 6x bow. So if you think your damage is lacking, I say you should probably take a look at your equips and other mages' tactics. Usefulness of Spells Only going to talk about Nova and Inferno because I don't know anything else. xD I don't know how you can call them only semi-useful. Even from an archer's point of view, I would love to have a mage in the party. Nova+Inferno dish out loads of damage. They also stack, so if there's more than one mage in the party, the damage won't be wasted (unlike the archer's AoEs ;/) I agree that you can't kite with them, but you can definitely tank. Don't try arguing here. I've watched a mage tank an entire nox room in CP1 before, and that's not very easy to do with the nox's special attack. She had a blue +9, but that was it. She used nothing but her AoEs. As for me, I stayed in my little corner and watched her dominate all the mobs that spawned. xD Go watch these kind of people before you complain. They are amazing. They are tankers, they are dd'ers, they are party players, they are solo'ers. If they can do it, then I'm sure you can. (; Casting animations Fighters are glitched. They aren't supposed to be able to cast skills like that. Right now, they can't cast one skill after another and ignore the animations, which make them heavily overpowered since they can dish out 2x the skills in the time other class cast one. So er, it's not a good example to compare to fighters. Range Archers have pretty much the same range as mages. Just be glad you can stay out of KKP's AoE. (: And I've always thought that "range" should be in the archer's domain. Kiting Lmao, no. Mages are supposed to be a support class: dish out heavy damage from behind a tank. Or, if they want to, they can be a tanker mage and take on all the mobs while dishing out heavy damage as well. xD But kiting? What do you want to do, merge archers and mages? Archers have a reason to be there, not just for "variety." Archers= snipe, range, kite. Mages= damage, support/tank, no kite. Stones Agreed with you. Both archers and mages have very few stones for some reason. o_o Ending comments Mages, imo, are the most balanced class compared to the other classes. There's clerics, who is next to invincible (with the right tactics and gear) one on one, but with such low damage uncharmed that it's hard to take down anyone. There's fighters, who are currently the tankers, DDers, and best PvPers (nerfnerfnerf~ TT__TT). There's archers, who have very little skills and have only recently begun to get partied since BR needs archers and AoE's can now be cast while running. Mages are juuusttt right. It's not that mages are underpowered, like you said, it's just that other classes are not in balance with mages. Mages are the only ones who are living up to their description on Fiesta's site. ;/ So, I don't think you have much to complain about. And one more thing: Quote:
Wait what? ._. I don't know about you, but half the reason I played fiesta for friends. I solo'd a lot on my archer because I wanted to, not because I was forced to. And as a 7x mage, I'm sure you would be able to get parties, since I could get into parties as a 7x archer with a 6x bow and no Piercing yet. ._. tl; dr Mages are the most balanced. There's nothing much to complain about, except for stones |
@Hraesvleg: Honestly, the idiocy of your statement makes me really wish I could just reach through my computer screen and slap you as hard as I possibly can. But, whatever. I think if anyone is a dick, it would be you. Resorting to insults just shows how immature you are. @Everyone else: I'm tired of repeating myself so I'm done with it. You guys can believe whatever you want. If you want to live in your own little fantasy world and believe that everything is okay and balanced, than that is fine by me. Any who, can we get a Moderator to close this thread? I don't feel like having to come back here just to hear someone else whining about something I said. |
The same applies to you, because you do not take anything on board. You just brush everything over. You are not always right.
If you actually read Hrae's post (instead of just telling everyone to read yours), you would realise that he is putting forward a valid argument, and not just throwing insults at you. You can either take everyone's advice on board or you can continue to suck as a mage and blame the game. Your choice. I don't care anymore. |
Suck as a Mage? I have been playing Mages longer than any of you. I know what I'm doing but I'm not blind enough to just believe everything is so perfectly balanced and wonderful. Seriously, have you noticed that 90% of these comments are people complaining about other classes (i.e. Cleric & Archers)? All they do is compare what they don't have in comparison to what Mages do have and make it seem like they're so horribly unbalanced some how. (Before you some how try to cleverly turn that around, don't. Be creative with your arguments.) If anyone sucks at their class, it's these people. Clerics? I rarely ever hear them complain, same goes for Archers? Do you know why? Because they have no reason to. Mages? I hear plenty of us complaining and that obviously means something needs to be done. They once asked us Mages what we would like to see changed and do you know what they changed? Nothing. And just for your information, by "They", I mean Outspark. As for Hraesvleg's post? He has no valid points. He believe that even the Free Battle Zone is supposed to be like Guild Wars. When the title clearly says otherwise. What his post does prove, is that he is immature and needs to work on getting some manners. |
^ Er, it would be nice if you worked on getting some manners too. >_> You're not taking in any of our thoughts. Your attitude is killing this thread. There were actually some valid points in your post that I agreed with. If you don't want to change your views, then don't post this if you know people are going to contradict it. The whole point of posting in forums is to get other people's comments and feedback. Some people agreed, some people disagreed, and that's that. If somebody disagrees, you don't need to go all out on them. And if you even bothered reading my wall of text, I didn't compare mages to any other class. ;/ I compared your complaints to what I watched other mages do, with and without CS. And from that, I concluded that mages are balanced because I've watched mages do what you say they could not do. I don't mind if you don't reply to this. Just that next time, if you're not going to let thoughts other than yours soak into your head, then just don't post something that will get other people talking. It's called a forum because we discuss. |
Thank you for bringing this thread to my attention. Also, please note, that I do not like to close a thread simply because the OP wants it closed after he/she throws out their last rant and it not allow anyone to recant. However, since the flames have not.... The skills and class balance issues is a great topic and I hope that someone will continue it in another thread. Having a level 68 mage, I have found most of this discussion interesting. ** Changed my mind while I was typin this out. This CAN be a good topic. I am leaving this topic open, handing out infractions, and hope that it can continue in a mature fashion. Threats of flaming will not be tolerated, everyone has been warned. |
FYI didn't read the 3 pages of replies...
But I've been a mage since Closed Beta ^^;; Cool downs I only used a few key skills, plus the 2 aoe skills. Magic Missile, Firebolt, Magic Blast, and the Frost Nova, and Inferno. I can have a forever going combo of skills there. Damage We do M-damage, not physical damage. We are actually very helpful in parties. The only way a fighter can match our damage is by having a +9 axe. But they too sacrifice their defense. Usefulness of Spells (or lack thereof) We can slow, fear, dispell, mana drain, steal buffs, remove buffs, and we have 3 aoe skills. I think we're pretty good. We have a bunch of awesome skills coming in the future. I hope <.< Casting Animations I've never been annoying with this, just the 2 aoes, but thats the price you pay for nice aoes. Fighters don't have any skills that load because they're intended to be a support class, the tanks. When they have to mock, kick, devastate or w/e its to save the parties life. A loading bar would not help us. Range Only skill I had an issue with was Nova in KKP. The others are fine. MD can get annoying, but everyone gets within its range, and its supposed to be a challenge. We aren't the "front line", that's fighters. Kiting Never been a fan of kiting period. But it is possible. Nova> attack> attack>fear>attack>ice>attack etc. Attack being w/e the heck you want it to be. Our advantage is slowing them, giving us a chance to get distance. But we're better off in parties I say. I never liked soloing. Stones Too little HP stones, never had a problem with SP. But that's what clerics are for. lvramire and I used to duo a lot. Even with a fighter you can do good. Get an END build fighter with nice scrolls and an axe, and who knows how to tank, and you'll dominate. |
Yes, I am double-posting. But, I want to make sure everyone sees my second post.
If you CANNOT discuss this in a mature fashion, then simply back out of the conversation. EVERYONE is entitled to their own opinion. Simply because someone does not conform to your way of thinking does not make them wrong. It does not make them right either. Everyone has a different playing style that affects how they feel about their character. Please keep that in mind when responding. People can discuss and debate things without getting rude, insulting, or childish. Thank you. EDIT: go Yosei - you saved my double-post, lol. |
Rationality
Hello FabledWaltz, here's a checklist you will find useful, before you go on making unfounded claims about everything but the pinnacle of the issue. I know you return to threads you claim to abandon, because you haven't changed a bit.
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Read most of the thread and all I gotta say is mages are second best to fighters when used right. So like I tell anyone having alot of problems playing their class, learn to play your class.
Mages are superior DD until 75. Then archers take over...probably til mages get another AOE. |
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Without cs stuff I could solo atleast 6 mobs my lvl or higher at a time with my mage. Stop complaining, want to solo alot more? go play a fighter. |
Good stuff. All I have to say is, I think it's gay that a mage's bread and butter spells (Magic Blast, Fireball) have casting times. These are the strongest spells in the game, WTF? Devastate doesn't have a cast time, and it stuns. Hell, a fighter with a +9 axe on auto attack can kill a mage in maybe 4-5 hits. We get Fear, so you get to watch a player run around aimlessly while you try to land a Inferno or Frost Nova on top of them, great. Stifle is good, but if you play a smart warrior, he'll just use another skill. Archers have the most ridiculous critical % in the game, they poison/make you bleed, speed up they attacks, and your DEF is crap and you have to wait for cooldown. Clerics are weak, but in a long drawn out battle you WILL DIE, due to spammed healing.
Don't get me wrong, I have killed many, but I went through hell to do it. :arg: |
Are fighters really that strong? Could it be that they're charmed?
Wat level brackets are you referring to? I usually run around the fighters, so they dont usually get much of a chance to stun/hit me unless i'm running towards them with a giant orange hammer! =D |
Um, stifle works on all skills that a fighter uses. If it only worked on one skill, it would be no problem. But all the noob fighters die and go "OMG I LAGGED"... repeatedly when they aren't. They're just stifled. And it affects everything as far as I know. It's the one thing that really messes us up aside from fear and being slowed from nova.
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LOL I remember being stifled by a mage and i was the same " OMG STUPID LAG!!!!!" LOL
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Yeah I'm pretty sure there is... but with my row of cleric buff + fear + watever else they casted one me... I probably didnt see it..
(plus.. i would be trying my best to spam my heal - which wasnt "working" properly - too busy to see one little icon XD) |
all class are strong, like i already said in many other thread, though fighter is my favorite so i'm the best at it, it hard to find good fighter these days, but there are still couple that are worthyout there. Look at DT' Dragon TOmb" and you know they are good or not, most of my friend, only pick the best fighter in their list to go to DT with em...
I love fighter, b/c they are strong, if you able to find good gears, they are crazy damage taker, with full str and blue axe, insane damage, with license 5%, and 25 spr 5%, base % of blue axe 9%, earing add 2%, that is already "21% critical base..." included that they able to use Vitality, "amazing skill for PVP", if they add damage to devate and duration of it, nice a s s agrro tanker, max cool down on mock, "stop wasting skill point on skill lol" i don't even use 1h anymore since i got +9 amors, that replace for shield, and extra amor +9 that is another +9, amazing HP with blood set... okie kept rant on fighter hehe, My cleric is crazy, so does my archer and mage, all come down, how you handle your character, and gears, "All rage, all rant, come down to that" |
I have the same thought Crazy. DT is the ultimate test on how good you are. Ive partied with many fighter that I got from shout were utter failures. Now I just duo with a cleric or if the cleric is not that good maybe another cleric or DD to pull off Cavarns.
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As far as Stifle, I must have been glitched or whatever, because I stifled a guy and he pulled another skill out of his ass. I checked for the stifled status icon and it was there, but I just watch in horror as whirlwind and power shot had me on the ground looking for nickels.... |
I thought Stifle doesnt stop them from casting spells.. it introduces a delay... but it doesnt stop through I thought....
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Delay to stones + skills~
Mages and Archers really do need a bit more stones though. Maybe they had a reason for lowering it, or maybe it's a bug, but more would be good. |
Yeah I spend half an hr in abyss and i ran out of stones already... (solo..)
MAYBE the idea is you should party up?! Coz my SP stones last me a fair while... While fighters and clerics need archers and mage to AOE, archers and mage will need clerics and fighters to heal and tank... Otherwise my archers could solo forever... |
Personally mages suck in my opinion. Mostly because if they charm they are unstoppable which ruins the game, they hit like 700's in pvp with charms, and even without charms they are too strong, at that, they are also really low hp. DONT BE A MAGE.
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^That's like the complete argument against this thread...... ._.
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If you think about it, Mages are the class that benefit most from CS, even among other classes if they CS to the limit.
+9ing all their armor erases the problem of low defense and +9ing doubles their already high damage. The doubled M.damage can't be mitigated except through scrolls which may be purged/stolen, and all the enhancing in the world won't increase your M.def. |
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+9 Armor does negate low defense, but it's rare and expensive, in game and real life via Spark Cash transactions. MDEF is, on average, not much higher than the other classes (maybe somewhere in between 70-100 points), it depends more on if your build is Full INT or INT/SPR, and what kind of SPR bonuses are on the gears the opponent player has equipped. I know Clerics and Archers with SPR that matches and rivals my own, and it can be difficult battling against them, if I didn't +9 my weapons. :love: As far as SC, I normally don't use it unless it's for enhancing, or extenders for long party raids/grinds where I don't trust the clerics, hate losing EXP unexpectedly from low HP/Defense, a Guild War, or Soloing troublesome areas, like Trumpy Remains and Burning Rock. In PvP I try to fight fair, and kill people with skill, versus spending unnecessary real life spending. |
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Magic Missile will more that suffice as a filler attack between stronger hitting skills. Quote:
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With the caveat of if they CS a lot. All classes benefit from CS, (Clerics arguably the least) but my point is that Mages seem like they gain the most. Quote:
With the caveat of if you CS a lot. Always assuming equal terms and CS-usage in PvP, out of combatants and classes, M.Def seems something you can't enhance against. |
*too lazy to read past the first 3 pages*
What the thread starter is saying: Mages should have more damage, decreased cooldown, ability to kite, more stones, so archers don't even need to exist, clerics and fighters don't need parties and mages can 1HKO Helga boss-o. I don't care about them, I never played the other classes but all I want is for mages to overpower everyone else. I know that mages are underpowered even though clerics are miserable everyday and archers are cast aside. Meh, don't know, don't care, but I WANT PLOX!! /exaggeration Responsex0: LOLWHUT AHAHAHAHAAAHAHA!!! Go play a PC game instead of an MMORPG? Oh and, waffles plox! \( ' - ' )/ |
And of course, it's ignorant posts like the one above me that make me /facepalm. I asked for this thread to be closed because people were a bit less intellectual than I had previously assumed and I was getting tired of repeating and explaining myself. Why I have to do this is beyond me but such is life I suppose. Instead, I got an infraction for a post that was posted almost exactly after a "warning" post. This seems like an abuse of power but within such a tightly knit community, you know it doesn't really matter what you say. Any who, can someone PLEASE close this thread already? |
A fair amount of decent discussions on the use of mage class has been constructed...
That is pricisely why the thread was left open. Just because you started the thread and it didn't go your way, doesn't mean others cannot discuss the topic further. I'm sorry you find it "ignorant", it doesn't mean others cannot have a decent discussion though. |
We usually close threads when requested, but we did not do it this time. Why? Because we don't want to close this thread after you get to make your last no-so-friendly post. We probably would have done it if you didn't make such a post when requesting for us to close it. It seems to us you were only trying to get a last word in (along with throwing some insults) so no one could defend themselves. Mind you, you weren't the only one who received warning (not infraction).
As you see, proper discussion did follow afterwards. I suggest you to watch your own posts and change your attitude if you wish to receive no more infractions. Same goes for anyone else in this thread who had borderline posts. Also, please think twice about creating discussion threads. If you are not prepared for discussion of topic from different perspectives, please do not make a thread. We will only close threads for you so many times before we stop doing it. I've decided to close this now since the discussion sort of slowed down by now and it's starting to not look pretty again. If anyone wants to continue a proper discussion, feel free to start a new thread. ----------- Edit: Second thoughts, if anyone wants to continue, do it here. Pretty much the same discussion~ |
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