Yeah but I was saying it in 1 post and not multiple areas. Still kids would know how to think for themselves wouldn't they? I think they know what to learn and not what to learn. Unless you're calling them stupid..

I swear when I'm pissed off. I think everyone in here also does that. I already said that I'm not swearing anymore. This discussion is on how it affects kids.

What makes you so sure that 'kids' won't copy? What makes you certain that a particular child/person will not be influenced by what they see/hear? There are those who are able to tell the differences while there are also others who are easily influenced. It's not so much as whether that person is smart or stupid.

Also, I think that when the others say 'kids' they mean someone under the age of... say 12? Maybe under 10-ish. I think some are going through the Internet at an even earlier age these days without parental blocks. Either way, no, if they had never heard/seen the word they wouldn't think anything of it. They'd see it, as seen by your initial post for example, a way to express anger. And one day they're angry about something in swear in which case they'd get into a nice load of trouble. There's a first for everything... the first time they see/hear a swear word, they will not know the difference of whether it is acceptable or not. You cannot expect every parent to sit their kid in the chair and go over every word not allowed to be said in public. Nor can you expect every person who stumbles upon such posts to know if it is right or wrong.

I'm sure MTV and other programs such as those are much, much worse but again... we'd like to keep at least these forums close to free of such languages. There are those who are offended or find profanities degrading and it does not have to be a child who thinks that. So it's better to cater towards those who do not like it and keep it at bay. Those who do not care so much about swearing can live without it too. Did that make any sense? I'm like half asleep... :zzz:

It's called a discussion not "idiotic chatter". This is a discussion forum, rants aren't immune to discussion either. The OP's asked the correlation between swearing and adverse affects to kids.

Personally I don't think the effect swearing has on kids is relevant to whether or not this forum appreciates it. It's strictly a matter of preference, not to be confused with a matter of justice and morality, which is essentially what you're arguing for. Are there any adverse affects from casual swearing and kids? Let's discuss.

Kids are growing less and less sensitive to swearing in these contemporary times. You're right in the sense they can think for themselves, and swearing is often used so casually it's easy to question whether or not it makes a difference. Adults will generally put the impression on their children that it's wrong to swear because it is supposedly a 'bad influence'.

On this forum we're not necessarily reaching out to children alone, so what I have to say next I express to people of all ages. I agree with the notion casual swearing is not good practice. It's an unconstructive practice. It's detrimental to a persons' linguistic skills.

Good linguistics is needed for reasoning and conflict resolving. If you consistently use an expletive in times of frustration or just casually in general, you're less likely to improve your vocabulary and reasoning skills. Why use an adjective when you can just swear. Why word your problem when you can just vent it through swearing. Why reason with someone when you can just swear at them. Thinking often becomes like this (not all cases of course) unbeknownst to the person swearing.

The more casual swearing becomes in societies, the less likely a person will try to construct their linguistic skills. I suppose the problems stems from expletives being so versatile. The old time notion of swearing "just" being bad is heavily outdated, and is a myth as far as I am concerned. I think the real underlying problem with a person swearing casually, is that it's unconsciously ruining their language skills, and consequently their reasoning skills.

Though people are clearly capable to think for themselves as you've pointed out several times, often people will let the society think for them. People learn from conventions, people fall into conformity. Society affects people whether they realise it or not. A society that allows casual swearing will produce different conventions than a society that doesn't. FiestaFan does not appreciate swearing and I fully appreciate that. I think the rule effectively prevents the potential decline of this forum's posts becoming completely unswaying and lacking of prose. I've seen too many forums that condone casual swearing produce close to zero sense posts. While I can't demonstrate a causal link, I'm sure most would agree with me that there is a strong correlation between swearing and poor language skills. Of course there are fine exceptions such as yourself, but keep that in mind. You're an outly from general society. But you should keep in mind that, just because you're outly from convention, doesn't mean you can be an outly from the rules.

This is a forum. We discuss things. We express ourselves verbally. I think it's important to create the best environment for that. And I think the relatively lenient rule on swearing is a good move by the forums. Not only does it cater for people who may slip a swear word once or twice, but it leaves the discussions on forums as relatively clean and precise as they can be. I could've easily expressed my frustration to this thread with a few expletives, but I'd rather not.

I should reiterate after writing so much that whether or not swearing is a just practice is irrelevant to the rules here. They are simply not appreciated, and gathered from your posts I'm more than sure you understand that already.

^ The above post is long, but read it before you post another argument for swearing. Pretty much said everything I want it to say.

I don't, actually. =/

Everyone sees things different. It's like how you see that swearing will not effect kids, while other sees that it has a bad influence.

We generally make rules on FiestaFan going by the conventional views, or the most favoured views, and clearly from this thread, the majority seems to disagree with swearing, hence the rule.

As for how it may affect the younger generations, read Dynamic's post. It's very well posted. It's long, but worth a read. :smarty:

Edit:

Just another thought. Take this analogy. Has your parents, or anyone, ever nagged you? Don't you get annoyed when they repeat the same thing over and over again? "Do you work!" -1 minute later- "Have you done it yet?" -2 minutes later- "Hey have you done your work?" -1 minute later- "Make sure you do your work!"

Doesn't that annoy you? It's like that effect. They may nag you once or twice, fine, but when they nag you just way too many times, it drives you nuts, wouldn't it? You may swear once or twice, but when you do it excessively, it gets irritating for members.

Mmhmm, I thought a definition is enough to show how it will effect kids as well as other regular members? Well, believe it or not, Wikipedia had a whole article on swearing, but I highly doubt they can write so many lines of "definition". For your convenience, I have actually skimmed through and pulled a bit in Wikipedia that will tell you how it will effect kids, as well as other people, since this is what you wanted to know:

Why would we want to expose children to an excessive amount of material that teaches them insulting, rude, and vulgar behaviour?

I didn't paste the link there just for the definition, you know. It would have been nice if you gave it a skim through.

If that isn't enough:

http://www.cusscontrol.com/swearing.html

http://www.cyh.com/HealthTopics/Heal...np=287&id=1538

Many other people in the thread also stated other reasons how it may affect other members. If you don't agree with any of them, then it's just the matter perspectives, I suppose.

Of course, this is a topic that pretty much just involves the conflict between different perspectives. Some people see swearing as okay, some people don't. On FiestaFan, we just go by the majority. I am referring back to FiestaFan since I assume the discussion was created from your disagreement about the rule.

If not, to me, it's just a difference in perspectives. I guess there isn't any absolute "right" or "wrong", but the convention is that it's seen as degrading, as shown from the links/quotes I have included above.

If you are not referring to the rule, then perhaps maybe I should have moved this to General Discussions. I'm not really sure what you're arguing for anymore - whether you are arguing for:

- Why swearing is alright; or
- Why is occasional swearing on FF okay but excessive swearing is not okay.

I've typed the post up to explain the latter, but if you're after the first point, then that's not really the purpose of my post to persuade you to think like I do. Just simply explaining why the rule is there.

You nub, what did I do? :goaway:

^ so tru, juggling 2 knives is okay, but 20....

The main idea of how swearing is a bad influence on kids is a thing I agree with. But some things I still don't agree with. It's that if I swear here, I know this is not good for the 'under 10-ish' I don't really understand how it will effect them. Why do I say this? Because from somewhere they will come across swearing/bad words sooner or later I can guarantee that it's inevitable.
Sure I sometimes swear but that doesn't mean that swearing is always bad. It can express feelings emotions etc. But it doesn't mean that I'm not taking in responsibility.
As for the repeating of swear words, I don't know :err: really pissed off that time that's why I posted on the All the Rage board but I don't know why it's fustrating to see a word repeated several times. If I was another person viewing the thread it wouldn't be such a big deal since the post does not affect me, distract me or harm me in any way, and I can choose to not view it. But if I had a person shouting several times for me to do something then that would be fustrating because I'm being annoyed, my ears will be hurting, the message is being targeted at me, I can't concentrate on what I'm doing etc..

I've tried to argue this topic many times dude...
and trust me just give it up.

Yes, people will come across swear words anywhere (TV, movies, Internet, etc) but the thing is that we don't want this forum to be part of that source. We'd like to be known, at least I think, as a friendly site that people of all ages can come and be somewhat "safe". If that makes sense?

You may not be offended by a post or song or whatever it may be that is filled with swearing. I for one, dislike it and it is generally better to cater towards those who do not want to see the swears than to those who do not mind. Yes, they can choose to ignore it but some believe it to be a concern and should be kept to a minimum. Swearing is never a 'nice' way to express feelings.

And if you are thinking about taking responsibility, perhaps you should then think of others who do not exactly take it as a way to express yourself. It has been established in this forum as a rule to keep swearing to a minimum. Which means once or twice is looked over but excessiveness is taken into account.

you KNOW its not good for them.. but dont know how it'll effect them?

you should ask yourself, why do you KNOW it's not good for them?

I think how it effects a kid has been repeated over and over again in this thread... maybe u should go back and read the entire thread again...

There are lotsa things that kids may expose to "sooner or later" but it doesnt mean we SHOULD expose it to them SOONER...

Why are there R rated movies? They're gonna watch it when they're 18+ anyway.. why not let them watch it now?

What about drinking? They could be an alcoholic later anyway.. why make it illegal for a youngster to drink?

I think you'd be interested in some parenting guide on what influences kids... how bad influence could effect a kid's live in future...

and this forum ISNT ONLY banning swearing JUST because there's kids here.

It's overall offensive and, to be honest... degrading.

Swearing inevitably being integrated into someone's vocabulary does not justify it. It's never a good practice for a society to demonstrate that excessive swearing is acceptable.

FiestaFan's an online society, and while things operated online may have less effect on people than the things that operate in the real world, it doesn't mean its' effect is meaningless.

I wrote earlier that I think, fully in my opinion, the biggest problem with excessive swearing online is that it is degenerative to someone's verbal skills. Another problem is that it gives people a bad impression of you. If someone is excessively swearing on the forums, they're likely not to be seen as others as nice people. This kind of effect is something people take to the internet from the real world. It's just something engraved in people's moral consciousness. A taboo word is taboo everywhere for most people, even in the freedom of the internet.

So many other people have made their points about excessive swearing and its' adverse effects, that I think your views need a little evaluation (in terms of understanding at least, not change). I think you should take a step back to read things over carefully.

Don't get offended, it's just different view points I suppose. I can see where you came from with your thinking, and I definitely think it's important that you understand FiestaFan's different views before you can respect them. It's a good thing for everyone you've brought this topic up.

Expose them to drinking?
Or R-Rated movies?
Please take in that they are very different than swearing.
Expose them to drinking early can cause health problems, I think we all know that.
R-Rated movies we don't want the young to see any sexual/violence.

But why do I say that it's not so bad when they see it now? Because swearing isn't always 'bad'. I'm not saying it's good; I'm saying that there is no harm in swearing if it's not used for offense.
'They're going to watch it when they're 18+' - let them if they want to. It's not like they're going to start turning violent. Push them to not watch any 18+ movies? That is also fine, just be careful not to push them too much or they might get stressed which leads to violence anyway.
'Be an alcoholic' - How are you sure they are 100% going to become alcoholic? It's not like everybody is alcoholic, but swearing is absolutely a common act. Alcoholic is 'bad' in every way and surely the kids can receive teaching of it's effects and accidents that have occured between alcoholic people.
Why isn't swearing always as bad as it is?
Have you ever sworn once? If so when? Why did you swear? Does that mean that you're becoming lazy/violent/disobedient? I highly doubt that.
You say the 'F' word. Does that mean you're a failure in life?
You say it when you're sad/angry or when you're shocked. Does that mean you should wash your mouth? That's what I mean by 'not as bad' as you may say something but it doesn't necessarily mean you think bad.
Why does swearing mean that it's 100% offensive?

I say "oh s---" does that mean I'm offending people? Am I targeting anyone by saying this? Nope, this is just a mere sign of surprise.

As for swearing excessively, I thought this was okay in the All the Rage board. I thought that board was just for people to release their anger and people wouldn't mind, but would if I said it on another different discussion. And so I was mistaken then.

Maybe from your experience, swearing is normal, and fine, and its not bad..

But from where I grew up, swearing is bad, swearing is only for rude people, swearing is offensive language...

i cringe when people swear... I for one cannot bring myself to say any swear word.. no matter how frustrated i am... i cant say i never swore... that's because the time that i did swore, i was a kid who didnt even know wat "swearing" is and copied my friend.. and got told off when i used the word at home..

i never swore ever again

you make swearing sound like a normal every day word.. well i can tell you its NOT...

you cant say it on TV, and all that with swearing is censored on radio... have you ever wondered why they do that? Hey it might not be hurting people, it may not be offending anyone... but you're still not allow to say it...

I dont know how to describe to you that swearing is bad...

rude word.. is a rude word... people use it in a rude way... no matter how u put it in a sentence it's still rude...

you come across sounding rude...

you're not telling someone off but by putting a swear word in a sentence it makes it rude...

i dunno wat else to say...........................

You seem to be repeating your arguments over and over again. Not everyone said profanity was 100% offensive. But it does clearly have an extensive list of adverse implications in its' implementation in speech and writing. These are not written in stone and they will vary upon the situation.

Yes you're right about that. But in any large society it's easier to censor swearing, alcohol, offensive TV and other potentially harmful things largely on the whole, than to attempt to filter swearing based on each and every unique context. Moderators on this forum do not have the kind of time to read through each individual post and make fair and well weighted judgements. In larger society, many laws can seem inconvenient and impractical at times, but even so, a government will prefer to apply its' law consistently so the system doesn't come crashing down. Believe me, leaving cracks in any system will lead to a collapse of order quicker than you know. FiestaFan aims to prevent excessive profanity as much as possible. If profanity in a 'decent' context were used too excessively, than FiestaFan must be consistent with its' ruling against excessive swearing. It prevents uproar from the side of people who excessively swear inappropriately asking "why is he allowed to do it, what's the difference." It is seriously time consuming to constantly have to deal with every individual with the same question over and over (stickies do naught). It's easier and serves a larger majority to consistently rule against excessive swearing.

It seems to me you've only been arguing the same points over and over again. You don't construct your argument further from people's thoughts and views, or even re-evaluate your argument the slightest. You hardly argue or discuss any of the fine points made by the people posting here. I admire the determination and persistence, but you gotta realise how stubborn and close minded you're being in this discussion.

Perhaps you think your view is an absolute and universal truth, and that's why you haven't been moved in the slightest by people's posts here. If that is the case, than there really is nothing that can be done. Personally I think that arguing with such a stubborn attitude is unconstructive and self defeating.

I met an 11 y.o. kid in the game. It surprised me that a user that young was already exposed to the game.

So yes, I'm all for censoring even though it's a bit overzealous. Certainly, the kids will see the indecent language elsewhere but the point is Outspark does not want parents to stop kids from playing the game (if I were a parent, I'd ban my young kid/s from playing games that are tainted by swear words. Seriously).

I understand your frustration but think of the children and plus, I don't see a problem reading the asterisks. If you used symbols to replace those, asterisks are just the same.

Please enjoy your time in Fiesta. I know you have.

Relax. :)

Goodnight

EDIT: I'm just 21 years old btw, in case you think I'm an oldie being overprotective.

I think you are a bit mistaken here. I've read the posts here and I try to answer them with detail. Although I don't answer every post at once, I try to give some reply. It is very time consuming if I gave replies to every post here. If you think I'm explaining the same point over and over again, that may be true but I try to explain my opinions. I'm not into law and debating so I'm not an expert at providing a well thought out and convincing explanation.
But saying that I think my view is an absolute and universal truth is something I don't appreciate. I don't think my views are all correct and I take in people's opinions. There is no right or wrong; it's just the way people see things.

You were talking of linguistics? Excessive swearing in my opinion does not affect your verbal/literature skills or the ability for good reasoning. Swear words don't contribute to a lack of verbal skills. Swear words in the end are just words that come out of people's mouth. Kids can swear all they like, but it doesn't mean that they can't do well in literature and explain with thoughtful ideas. There are many poets, authors, lawyers etc that definitely have succeed in language skills, but do you think they've never sworn in their life?
As for keeping control of the actions of the community you're absolutely right but weren't we here discussing the effects of swearing?

Firstly I said perhaps you considered your feelings a universal truth. I was not completely sure. Of course my wording was not great with that one. Hoping that's cleared up. Sorry to have offended you. But I think what you wrote was the point I was trying to get across. I think people have adequately answered your question about the effects of excessive swearing, and it's completely up to you whether or not you want to accept any part of them or continue believing excessive swearing has no real effect.

I also did not say linguistic skills are directly affected by excessive swearing, but there is definitely a correlation between excessive swearing and degenerated linguistic skills. A person is more likely (not definitely) to demonstrate a deterioration in their linguistic skills. If a person excessively uses profanity to express themselves it is likely that they will not try expanding their vocabularies to express themselves more concisely.

My point about controlling the actions of the community were relevant to you understanding why the rules are imposed as they are on FiestaFan. You wanted to know the real affect swearing may have on people, and I had assumed this was because you wanted to understand why the rule was adopted on FiestaFan in the first place. I said earlier it's really important for anyone to understand a rule to be content with following it. If my assumption was wrong, then by all means ignore it.

My contention remains the same however, and if you really still believe swearing has no effect on kids, than I can't change that. I personally think excessive swearing does have an effect, even if that effect is small. I think I will leave things up to you now. This was a great discussion on the ethics of profanity.